Maybe it's the old shoe!
It is not TOB noise for sure.
Did the video shoot with engine running or not -- seems like running. Does it have the same noise with engine not running? You should be able to tell the squeaking noise is from the pedal bushing or from the slave cyl area.

 

Thanks. It makes the same noise with engine running or not. I'll look into the pedal bushing and the slave cylinder.
Hmm, it might be worth calling the shop again and find out if they replace the clutch shoe when they replace the clutch...or just get a list of everything they would service when they do a clutch.

 

If same noise with engine off, then it has nothing to do with TOB. I think the pedal bush bearing or air in the fluid.

 

2004 330Ci vert 6MT.

There are three things I've noticed.

- Flywheel chatter which has gradually worsened since getting the car. The chatter is only present at idle in neutral and goes away if I rev up slightly or press the clutch in. If the chatter is really bad, the interior lights brighten significantly when I rev up slightly at idle. You can see the behavior here. The horizontal video has a really loud chatter which was recorded right after I did a hill start. I slipped the clutch at 2.8k rpm in maybe 3 seconds. Hill was 60 deg in San Francisco. Smelled clutch afterward which has me thinking I overheated the clutch disk.

The vertical video here was recorded several days after the hill start and the chatter is much quieter but still present. Interior lights brighten significantly when I rev the car.

- The car will occasionally not go into 1st gear. It sometimes takes multiple attempts to get it into 1st. It goes into 1st most of the time.

- When I press/decompress the clutch pedal, I often hear a very loud springing noise from outside the car regardless of whether the car is running. You can observe this here.

I acquired the car in April 2021 with 83951 miles and it currently has 99k miles. The clutch was replaced in February 2020 at 83238 miles under a previous owner.

I called the shop listed that did the clutch service in 2020 to get the full service records. From what I've learned, I think my clutch may be failing. I would be surprised and disappointed if this were the case since a clutch usually lasts more than 20k miles, right? I called the shop previously to confirm that a clutch job includes the pilot and throwout bearings in the service. Here are the service records I was able to get from the shop that did the clutch service.

Any advice? Does anyone here have experience with clutch/transmission? I might first try bleeding the clutch line and replacing master and slave cylinder but, from what I can see, I think the clutch is showing signs that it will need to be replaced soon.

How long do these clutches last? How likely is it that the flywheel was just resurfaced or something sketchy that might cause premature failure? Would most shops be able to tell you what parts they used and if they were OEM? The list above doesn't show any of that info. I might call back tomorrow to get more info on what parts were used.

If I do end up needing to replace the clutch, I have a friend who might be willing to diy with me. I don't feel comfortable dropping a transmission by myself on stands. I would also probably go with something more durable like ACT single mass flywheel clutch kits. Thoughts?

Thanks.

 

If the chatter is really bad, the interior lights brighten significantly when I rev up slightly at idle.

You should use a voltmeter and measure the voltage at the jumper post on the front right fender, at idle and at 3000 rpm.

- When I press/decompress the clutch pedal, I often hear a very loud springing noise from outside the car regardless of whether the car is running.

This seems to be the pressure plate is going bad, as I can't see what else causing this noise, and the issue of shifting into the gear.
Btw, did I see this same thread few weeks ago?

 

This is tough one. Those part prices suggest they used Genuine parts... $1200 for a flywheel? That's full price for a 6-speed Genuine BMW dual mass flywheel. Same with clutch kit.

How good is the repair shop? They don't need to be BMW Specialist but are they competent? I will assume they are.

For a smooth sounding/operating clutch you want Genuine or LUK clutch components and you want to use a dual mass flywheel. Some might dis-agree, but many/most of the so-called single mass or lightweight flywheel make the noises you describe. I don't believe the single-mass kit you mentioned would last longer. and I would never install one in my own car - well I might try it if I was building a race car.

Clutches should last a lot longer than 20k, even with someone learning how to shift, etc.

If you want to fix this, you really have no choice but to pull the transmission and check clutch plate for wear and/or replace non-Genuine/LUK components. It's not that bad to DIY on jack stands, but you really need someone who has done a clutch before.

I don't know how the lights brightening play into all of this. Buy a cheap cigarette lighter volt meter on Amazon and measure voltage put out by the alternator while idling/running.

 

For a smooth sounding/operating clutch you want Genuine or LUK clutch components and you want to use a dual mass flywheel. Some might dis-agree, but many/most of the so-called single mass or lightweight flywheel make the noises you describe. I don't believe the single-mass kit you mentioned would last longer. and I would never install one in my own car - well I might try it if I was building a race car.

Remember, up until the late 80s/early 90s, BMWs came with single mass flywheel and sprung hub clutch setups.

For our E46s, most of the conversion kits revolve around a lightweight single mass flywheel and spring hub clutch setup. The LWFW will result in more chatter, especially when the AC is on during the summer. The DMFW dampens the chatter in an OE setup.

Once upon a time I had a Audi B7 A4 in the stable and it's throwout bearing disintegrated, so I swapped out the fw/clutch with a standard weight single mass unit kit from clutch masters. LOVED this setup, and that would be my ideal setup for an E46. In doing a little research, it appears clutch masters offers a similar kit for our cars.

I did run a LWFW setup in my old E46 from 79k-230k (clutch wore out, installed similar kit) and then 230k-250k when the car met it's demise. My new to me 330ci still has the OE clutch- it's vague and I hate it. Can't wait until spring when I can fix this. In closing, the single mass flywheel kits totally transform our cars.

 

To add to Sapote’s advice, the voltage regulator in the alternator could be acting up. Be advised that BMW sourced alternators from Bosch and Valeo. The only way to tell which alternator is in the car is to remove the air cleaner box and use a flashlight and a mirror to read the label at the rear of the alternator. Hopefully it says “Bosch.” A Bosch voltage regulator is about $50.

As for the clutch it could be the throw out bearing. The throw out bearing in my 2001 330ci went out at 100k miles. It literally came apart when I was swapping the slave cylinder.

Your transmission was made by ZF and the transmission can be hard to get into 1st gear when it’s cold. The trick is to put the transmission into 2nd gear and then into 1st gear when stopped. Also, what gear lube is in the transmission? I highly recommend you drain it and refill it with Redline D4ATF or a 50/50 mix of that fluid and Redline MTL. The 50/50 mix should be used if the winter temperatures don’t get below freezing. The transmission capacity is about 1.5 quarts.

 

As for the clutch it could be the throw out bearing. The throw out bearing in my 2001 330ci went out at 100k miles. It literally came apart when I was swapping the slave cylinder.

A bad TOB should not make any noise when pushing down the clutch pedal with engine off, as OP's video. A bad TOB should also not cause any gear shifting issues, aside from the bad scream loud noise of the seized TOB sliding over the PP fingers. His gear grinds when shift, this means the input shaft is not freed even with the pedal pushed down to floor -- clutch is touching the PP.

 

You say flywheel chatter.

What do you mean? A rattling noise?
I ask because 'clutch chatter' is when a clutch slips irregularly, causing
a vibration when you're trying to drive away.

The Getrag transmission is also known for rattling, especially at a slower idle speed.
It's a 'feature' not a bug. And depressing the clutch wouldn't change the
dual mass flywheel, but it DOES decouple the transmission.
Critically- does the rattle stop with 'some pressure' on the clutch pedal,
or a second or 2 after you press the clutch to the floor?

If it was my car, and I wanted to confirm this, I'd put MTL90 into the transmission
and see if it got quieter. Then see if I could SHIFT the darned thing, as MTL90's
pretty thick for a BMW gearbox. (I currently like a quart of MTL and a half of D6)

As to 1st gear, the first thing to make sure is that the hydraulic system's working.
But, above, if the rattle goes away when you press the clutch, that would indicate
that it does. Since the next diagnostic steps are expensive, I'd jack the drive wheels off
the ground and see if they spin with the clutch depressed. They shouldn't.

If they do, next step is to pull the transmission...

t

 

Clutch life really depends on usage. Normally, M54 clutch lasts 250,000km +-50,000km. Original dual mass flywheel is usually still good and within service limits when replacing the clutch for the first time. Never heard about anyone replacing clutch on M54 twice in car's life.

It's not a rough 4-cylinder diesel where dual mass flywheel lasts as long as tires.

 

The dual mass clutch in my 330ci only gave up at 284k km. In the e34 (M50) it lasted till 245k km. I wanted a single mass, but wanted more to preserve the driveline components, plus avoid explaining to anyone all that clattery noise the gearbox makes when idling with a single mass. Couldn't find a kit known to do that, so stuck with the DMFW, ended up getting an LuK kit with the later TOB. Super hard to find in the aftermarket due to all the different gearbox options in e46; (Eg 6 speed SMG, 5 and 6 speed standard, all being so different- and each being potentially different for B25, B28, B30 and S32 options). In the end I thikn the B28 and B30 5-speed are the same. Did the pilot bearing and inout output seals too. So now I only have to go back in to do the shifter linkages, which I didn't have at the time (doh!). The parts cost was hardly low, but its nice to have a new clutch that behaves well and drives like the factory says it should.

 

Thank you all for your responses. I took the car to a guy I trust to examine it. The pedal noise is likely the spring-loaded pressure plate. The chatter indicates a worn flywheel. I showed him the videos I recorded as well as let him test it right there. He was able to reproduce the issue and, yes, the chatter is VERY loud and noticeable now especially if the car has been running for a while. Again, the chatter is only noticeable at idle in neutral and goes away completely when I compress the clutch pedal. Chatter immediately returns when I decompress the clutch pedal. This guy said he'd only know for sure if the transmission is dropped as many of you suggested. I'm leaning toward just getting the clutch replaced. I could maybe get more life out of my clutch but I want the peace of mind as this is my only car.

I'm guessing the previous owner of my car didn't know how to drive. I am the third owner. The second owner only had the car for a few thousand miles (like actually 3k miles) but, in that time, the clutch was replaced. The car was driven 700 miles by the second owner with the new clutch before I got it. Having a clutch be replaced at 80k miles is already unusual but I'm guessing that the 700 miles driven wore the new replaced clutch significantly. The pressure plate noise has been present since day one when I got the car. I just didn't really look into it until now after the chatter got really bad and got me thinking about clutches.

The first owner of the car owned it for all but the last 3k miles before I got it and the car was serviced at only BMW dealerships during this time. I'm guessing the second owner is responsible for the wear of the clutch: killing the original clutch and then wearing the replacement clutch significantly before I got the car 700 miles later.

I'm leaning toward ACT (advanced clutch technology) street clutch kit and street flywheel which should have only a very mild rattle and about half the weight of the OE flywheel. Clutch torque rating is 50% higher compared to OE clutch which is perfect as I'm hoping to eventually get a few bolt-on Dinan performance upgrades which will give me a power gain. Looks like I can get the flywheel and clutch kit for around $1200. I'll get the rear main seal done at the same time as well as getting a stainless steel pivot pin to go on the clutch fork.

Yes, the pedal noise wouldn't be the throw-out or pilot bearings since I hear it even when the car isn't running. The bearings would only make noise if they are spinning which isn't the case when the engine isn't running.

I confirmed that the shop that did the clutch job replaced master and slave cylinders. That shop seems reputable as well from what I can find and they didn't hesitate at all to share the records of the clutch job per my original post.

 

What kit did they put in? I'd be pulling the box before buying anything, and checking they used the right TOB. Or maybe they thought it was a good clutch but it is just a faulty or poor asian copy. As I understand it, all the single mass ones cause chatter in the box with clutch depressed- from new more than people can handle. You are replacing a very highly engineered BMW clutch with a 'performance' replacement which is not engineered for the application unless the manufacturer can honestly claim to have done it on this model, let alone another. I'd be putting in a DMFW unless the gearbox was very low kms and if it were not apparent why the noise is so bad. But I want to drive my car, not just race it.

Race cars can be noisy AF it just doesn't matter. As I understand it, single mass caters for this purpose- at least until someone actually posts about a single mass e46 kit which is quiet when crawling in traffic.

I know its costly, but at least you have the later setup, with the pilot bearing outside the output shaft- they are so much easier to find- and cheaper

 

Update 2/7/23:

I found someone reputable who I've worked with before to install a new clutch. This guy has always been kind enough to answer technical questions over the phone. I always see lots of old M cars being serviced at his shop whenever I'm there. I opted toward getting the ACT street lite kit with a single mass flywheel. Install is scheduled for 2/10/23. I will also be getting the rear main seal replaced, new transmission mounts, and a new clutch pivot pin (genuine bmw stainless steel). May as well replace since it costs almost nothing extra at that point. I'll review the new clutch install too for anyone interested in comparing OEM clutch to the ACT kit.

It took several weeks to order and source the parts. The particular kit and flywheel I wanted were backordered everywhere. Literally called like 30 venders before I finally found one.

Opted for a professional installation for this job because I'm not comfortable dropping a transmission in my driveway. Also, this guy's feedback may give me options to fight in the case that the previous clutch was poorly installed.

I will ask the guy to save the original parts and I hope to learn from him what parts failed on the OEM clutch. Either I'm the idiot driver or the previous owner was (pretty sure previous owner). It could also be that the shop that did the install of the previous clutch did a bad job.

Super excited. I've been without a car for 2 months now and I'm excited to drive again.

 

Update 2/20/23:

Clutch has been replaced with the ACT street lite with single mass flywheel. I also had the transmission mounts, rear main seal, clutch fork, clutch pivot pin, and clutch fork release spring replaced. The clutch hub has an integrated pilot bearing. The kit included a replacement release bearing which was installed as well. A professional installed these parts. Seems very reputable and experienced and, every time I'm there, I see e30 M3 or some other rare car being serviced by him.

I saved the OEM clutch parts. It turns out they were still in very good condition.

Unfortunately, those noises still appear to be present. I still have rattle at low rpm and clutch pedal still makes the noise. Here is a video after all the work was done. e46 rattle and pedal noise still present after ACT clutch install
The single mass flywheel should have OE to mild rattling/chatter but the behavior I'm seeing here is identical to the original noises. I'll ask ACT this week for an opinion on it.

The good news is that I do really like the new clutch. Engine speed acceleration is much faster and downshifts now take much less time. Also, the car accelerates significantly faster. There's definitely more power to the wheels now.

I was told that my exhaust is damaged. The exhaust had to be pulled to drop the transmission/clutch. Section 1 of the pipes has several bends in it. Some of the fasteners/brackets appear to be pretty rusted on the exhaust. I know some of the mounting brackets for the exhaust mount to the transmission so maybe the vibrations from the transmission are causing the rattle? This would make sense maybe with the clutch affecting it since a compressed clutch would disconnect transmission from the crank and lessen the vibrations. I plan to go under the car again myself to look at the exhaust fasteners for anything that could vibrate and cause the rattling noise. This still wouldn't explain the pedal noise or the brightening interior lights when I rev up while it's rattling. @Sapote suggested it could be the voltage regulator. I'm going to also test that. I've only driven 50 miles to/from install.

The exhaust damage was due to the suspension being really weak when I got the car. The shocks could be hand-collapsed when I removed them. The car must have bottomed out hard more than once since several bars, gas tank heat shield plate, exhaust, and rear lower control arms were damaged. Have since replaced the rear lower control arms.

 

Upate. 6.28.23.

I replaced my camshaft position sensors which seems to have resolved the issue. The car had not logged any codes or anything but I noticed oil seeping through the exhaust side sensor so I replaced both of them and now the chatter is gone. The idle is much smoother now as well.

I also did spark plugs, valve cover gasket, and alternator voltage regulator at the same time.