O nice scanner, mate..I gotta have one of those. But I do not have A SINGLE CLUE wth that is saying..

 

haha no worries mate. £25 ($50?) off ebay for the cable, download the software for free.. E Z.

 

Every VANOS has thrashed seals. The material the original seals is made out of is simply not compatible with the operating environment, they're certainly not compatible temperature wise and possibly not compatible chemically. Definitely do the seals if you're in a position to do them; they don't even last 10k under normal operating conditions before the symptoms occur, the software just masks most of them.

I was one of the first people here other than the guy selling the seals to do them... was way back in early December of 2007. Unfortunately, I totaled my 328i 2 weeks after replacing them but the difference was noticeable even before they were broken in.

I plan on getting them done on the 330i insurance replaced the 328i with as soon as I figure out a way to get the third party warranty to pay for a VANOS replacement... getting the mechanic to order the replacement from DrVANOS instead of the dealer is easy, but finding something actually externally wrong with the VANOS (better yet something that throws a CEL) is going to be tricky with some of the extra crap the M54 DME does to hide the problems that the M52TU DME just doesn't do.

 

and possibly not compatible chemically.

Are you making this up ? Let's see some sources for this information.

 

I would recommend checking out Beisan systems.com for typical symptoms. I just installed the seal kit in my car and it made a substantial difference. My car mainly "stumbled" between @2500 & 3000rpm. Before I installed the seal kit, I adapted to the performance issue by getting through 3000rpm in 1st gear then spending as little time there as possible. I'm not sure if I'm interpreting your test results correctly but they seem to be focussed on parameters at static rpms (ie 3000 & idle), where as the issue appears to be more dynamic concerning the rate, and accuracy the vanos unit varies the valve timing as required. Good luck

 

I didnt think there were any problems with the way my car was running except for a slight hesitation around 2k rpm. Then I did the vanos seals and it made a HUGE difference in the drivability of the car. Before I did them I didnt think anything of the fact that I had to be over 2k rpm to really get the car moving, thats how most small displacement motors are, after changing the seals the car will accelerate smoothly from just over 1000 rpm in pretty much any gear. And its only a 325. So now I can drive around shifting at 2k if I like, makes the car much quieter as I dont have to rev up as much and of course I get better mileage.

 

:facepalm:

OK OK my question was, based on the information provided does *my* vanos appear to be functioning? I'm well aware of the good work done by Raj and besianseals, and the background about why the seals fail in the first place.

We don't need a rehash of those previous discussions.

All i'm asking is that anyone who understands the information in the screenshots to kindly tell me if *my* vanos is working correctly.

Yes, at 120k the *OE* seals will be toast. But im owner number 6 for this vehicle. If they've been replaced already, then I will not need to re-do them. If the VANOS diags appear in order, then the seals must already have been done.. no?

Cheers.

 

Incidentally, for anyone interested - if i understand correctly:

Target Position - what the ECU would like the vanos to do
Actual Position - what actually happened

So based on the info, my VANOS would actually appear to be OK, assuming my understanding is correct.

It would be great if somebody could actually confirm this.

Cheers

 

Let's look at it this way. The hiccups are good enough reason for the 5 formers owners to sell the car.

 

:facepalm:

Wow - you think? How old are you out of interest? Have you somehow managed to review the history of my car and determine all 5 owners sold in the previous 12 months to my ownership? Why would you even make that assumption?

Lets see - 10 year old car.. 10/5 = 2 years average ownership each - not unreasonable i think. But lets analyse this further: The guy I purchased the car off only had it 6 months (100% genuine reason for sale), and I understand BMW to have been the first owner. I've had it 12 months. That means there are 2 owners remaining who owned it for the bulk of the 10 year period - perfectly reasonable, no?

 

Back on topic here, I tend to trust Raj at Beisan and he often monitor's this topic on the site and may post here, but you might try email/pm'ing him directly with your questions. That said, his general contention seems to be that the seals of all these cars begin to fail at around 20K as the BUNA material they used to make them begins to harden and shrink with heat and constant chemical exposure to the internal engine environment (it's all on the site). Individual experiences and severity of the symptoms vary with different cars, mileage, driving conditions, driving style, etc. So I'd say it's a safe bet that your seals are likely on their way out. I had intermittent cold idling jumps, mostly when it got cold outside, nothing too severe but annoying. The good news is that the fix is neither expensive or difficult, just time-consuming so likely worth doing. My 2¢.

 

I had intermittent cold idling jumps, mostly when it got cold outside, nothing too severe but annoying.

Ever wonder why the 2001 cars that use the same VANOS (and seals) as your car never suffer from the cold idling problem?

BMW fixed the idle problem in 2001 without changing anything inside the VANOS.

I wonder what they did? If I knew, I'd do it to my 2000 car and fix the idle problem.

Most likely a software change.

 

Based on the readings below, at idle and at just over 3krpm.. are my VANOS working ok?

Without knowing BMW's engineering specs on that parameter you really can't conclude anything.

 

Back to the 0p. If it aint broke don't fix it. If 1/2 doz people have owned this car, chances are the vanos sys has the upgrade. Too bad there's no documentation of it. Your description of the way your car runs indicates no trouble found with the vanos system. Enjoy the car-

 

inb4 vanos newbs

 

What interface are you using? I will assume it is the ELM as I have the same thing and got it for the price you listed. What free software did you download to get the parameters you have posted? As to your question, my only wonder is that the values are nearly identical at idle and 3k, I would think that they would be varied by quite a bit at that rpm spread. If I get the same software, I could look at mine and compare (stock vanos seals at 155K). I could not do it until tuesday though as all of my home laptops are mac and my only windows machine is at work.

 

Maybe I can help clarify some things.

The 99-00 M52TU engine cars are known for cold weather cold start idle jolts and possible stall. When the engine is first started the vanos is set in a default position which fully advances the exhaust timing and fully retards the intake timing. This prevents any intake/exhaust valve opening overlap and allows for pure air/fuel mix needed to start a cold engine. At startup the air/fuel mix in significantly enriched and the idle is raised. This is needed to start a cold engine. The secondary air system is turned on to pump air (oxygen) into the exhaust manifold. This combusts the excess unburned fuel and heats up the cold cats.

The cat catalysts need high temperatures to function. When the cats are cold they are non-functional and exhaust escapes untreated. Bringing the cats up to operating temperature asap is an important emissions control criterion.

Once the engine warms up and the idle is lowered the next focus for the DME is warming up the cats. The vanos is used to do this. Usually the spark is delayed and the exhaust valve timing is retarded. This apparently creates an after burn effect. This is used to warm up the cats. It***8217;s at this time that M52TU engines encounter the idle jolts caused by the failed vanos seals. The vanos works on engine oil pressure. At low idle the oil pressure is at its lowest level. The exhaust side of the vanos has a spring which advances the exhaust timing by default. This causes the exhaust timing to be fully advanced when the engine is being turned off. This assures no intake/exhaust valve overlap needed to start a cold engine. Retarding the exhaust timing requires great oil pressure to overcome the spring force and retard the vanos piston and timing. Due to the seals failure and oil leakage and the low oil pressure due to the low idle, the exhaust timing can***8217;t be retarded correctly. This somehow causes the engine to have the idle jolt encounters. This might also be related to the DME reaction to the vanos failure.

Replacing the vanos seals repairs the vanos and resolves the M52TU cold weather cold start idle jolts and possible stall.
01+ M54 and M56 engine cars have the same vanos and same failing seals but don***8217;t experience the cold weather cold start idle jolts and possible stall. It seems evident this was resolved with a software change. I***8217;m not sure what was done. This software patch is now also available for M52TU cars. If the latest software is updated at the dealership the problem is resolved. Owners who have done this also note some performance improvements. BMW (Siemens) likely also changed the PWM (pulse width modulation) signals that drive the vanos solenoids and the vanos function. The pulse duty cycle might be further increased on the exhaust side to better overcome the oil leak and overtake the spring to retard the timing.
It is evident though that the software updates do not bring the vanos to proper function. Many owners with 01+ cars with the latest software updates have installed the vanos seals and reported significant performance improvements.

The failed vanos seals in the majority of cases don***8217;t cause fault codes. Albeit we have seen many cases of fault codes due to failed vanos seals. It might also be that over the life of the car the failed vanos seals might well cause a fault code.
The vanos is not fully failed due to the failed vanos seals. This is why vanos failure codes aren***8217;t prevalent. The vanos is able to adjust the timing, but it is slow and sloppy when doing it. It has been noted to me that when running the GT1 (BMW tester) vanos test this can be seen on the screen. The Autologic (aftermarket tester) vanos test fails the vanos.

So to the OP, it***8217;s not just if the target and actual positions match. Its how quickly is the vanos achieving the target position.

The vanos is a hydraulic actuator. It uses oil chambers at the fore and aft of a piston to position the piston. The piston is mounted to a splined shaft. Positioning the vanos piston positions the splined shaft. Positioning the splined shaft modifies the relative rotational position of the camshaft to the crankshaft. This is BMW***8217;s variable valve timing system. When the vanos seals are failed, oil from the oil chambers leaks across the piston and doesn***8217;t allow the oil pressure to build up in a timely manner to effectively position the piston, splined shaft, and camshaft timing.

Variable valve timing has many benefits. Overall improved power and torque, particularly lower torque. Smooth power delivery. Flatter torque curve. Improved fuel consumption. With the failed vanos seals the engine performs worse than an engine without variable vanos timing. With functioning vanos seals the engine performs better than an engine without variable valve timing.
A possibly useful test is to disconnect the vanos intake solenoid electrical connector. This will cause the DME to not use the vanos and for the vanos to go into the default timing position of exhaust fully advance intake fully retarded. I expect if the vanos seals are failed the engine will perform better in this position, and if the seals are functioning the engine will perform worst in this position.

The vanos seals are failed on all the cars. The seal O-rings are made from Buna. This is the same material the valve cover gaskets are made of. Most of you are well aware what happens to the valve cover gaskets over time and use. Now imagine a small sliver of this installed in the bowels of the engine under oil pressure. It fails in a much quicker time than the valve cover gaskets. Numerous owners have now replaced the vanos seals and they have ALL reported failed seal O-rings.

Hope all this helps.

 

Replacing the vanos seals repairs the vanos and resolves the M52TU cold weather cold start idle jolts and possible stall.

01+ M54 and M56 engine cars have the same vanos and same failing seals but don't experience the cold weather cold start idle jolts and possible stall. It seems evident this was resolved with a software change. I'm not sure what was done. This software patch is now also available for M52TU cars. If the latest software is updated at the dealership the problem is resolved. Owners who have done this also note some performance improvements.

I thought so.

It would be very helpful for M52TU owners (such as me) to know what software update to specifically request be done.

Is there a BMW TSB relating to this?

 

raj, very helpful, thanks for commenting. so based on what you are saying the response times from target to actual are critical; i'll try and get some measurements - any idea on what constitutes 'too slow' ?

 

You should see almost immediate achievement of the target position and it shouldn't be off like yours are.

The Beisan seals have been available for almost two years. If you haven't installed them in the past year and the previous owner hasn't installed them in the 6 months before that, then you likely don't have them.

 

http://www.vanosrx.com/

that should solve all your problems

 

Still, you need to know what to ask for.

Seems like we know it's a software problem but we don't know exactly what upgrade to ask for.

We're Fanatics, but in the BMW world, we're outsiders.

 

Simple ask them to update the DME software. Tell them I don't want anything else I will pay you JUST DO IT!! Find a good indy with an Auto logic they will do it as well. We do it all the time at our shop. We check the software level at every inspection II and upsell it if there is new software.

 

This TSB will at least make them program it but does not really apply


SI B 11 11 06
Engine

October 2006
Technical Service

This Service Information bulletin supersedes S.M. B11 201 03 dated February 2003.
SUBJECT
M52TU M54 DME FC 222

MODEL
E53, E39, E46, E36/7 (Z3) with M52TU, M54 up to 01/03

SITUATION
During prolonged warm-up, when ambient temperatures is below -10 C and full heat or defrost is selected, engine temperature gauge goes to red. Engine does not overheat. Possible additional faults: EGS 148 (94) CAN Engine Temp.

CAUSE
Possible software calibration in DME.

PROCEDURE
The improved DME software was introduced since DIS CD V32 with update 1.

On a customer complaint basis, reprogram DME with the current version of Progman. Do not replace thermostat or other components.
WARRANTY INFORMATION
Covered under the terms of the BMW New Vehicle Limited Warranty.

Defect Code Refer to KSD

Labor Operation: Refer to KSD
Labor Allowance: Refer to KSD

 

Thanks. I might use this to get the DME updated.

 

I have heard from some owners and mechanics that the software patch doesn't always work and the problem returns.
I guess BMW is not employing the same software patch as the 01+ cars.
My guess is they modified the PWM (pulse width modulation) protocol to further increase the pulse width to overcome the oil leak. I expect your seals just failed further and the patch was not sufficient enough.

The problem is the vanos seals failure. The real solution is to replace the vanos seals.

 

.... spoken by the man who sells vanos seals.

:woot:


I want the 2001 software that solves the stalling issue while using the very same VANOS.

 

There is an adaptation system for the vanos leak in the car as the OP has shown (the target being the adaptation compared to the reference values). But my experience of that was that it didn't work very well. It's conceivable that an updated software might work. But I still believe properly sealed vanos pistons as the engineers had intended would be a better solution. The adaptation system seemed very much as an after-thought. I can only imagine BMW refusing to correct the vanos seals design because, perhaps, they were bound by some kind of contractual obligation to the vanos maker. In that case the vanos maker is to blame and BMW is doing their best using an adaptation system to circumvent the defect they are aware of.

If you insist on the software solution, maybe you can try it and let us know. The beisan seals are a perfectly good solution. Mine have been working for 1.5 years. Although it didn't solve all the hesitation issues, it did solve one of the major ones. Fuel air mixing is a complicated business in the BMW. Getting the vanos fixed leaves one less variable.

Our beisan friend may drum on about the virtues of his seals. In my books at least he has some proven merit.

 

If you insist on the software solution, maybe you can try it and let us know.

For perfect clarity, I am focused on the potential of a DME software update to eliminate the cold star-up stalling issue that is present with the M52TU engines (my 2000) but not on the M54 engines that use the very same VANOS.

When I schedule my car for rear sub-frame inspection I'll talk to the stealership about updating the DME too.

 

If it's the same vanos, then you have the same problem in the vanos. Using software to patch a physical leak is similar to giving a man with a missing leg crutches. It works to some extent in making the problem less severe. But it won't work all that well. The basic problem is that they shouldn't have allowed a leak to appear in the first place, when an engineering solution for a non/less-leaking seal is easily feasible.

 

You're missing the point.

The M52TU has a cold stalling problem.

The M54 doesn't.

They both use the same VANOS.


Logic then would appear to indicate the cold stalling issue isn't simply due to the VANOS.

 

You're missing the point.

The M52TU has a cold stalling problem.

The M54 doesn't.

They both use the same VANOS.


Logic would say the cold stalling issue probably isn't the VANOS.

It is the Vanos I replace more than my fair share at the dealer. M52to and M54 has different intakes and other internal part. There is a simple test unplug the vanos and see if your stall gopes away if it does you know your issue.

One of the differences is where the cam timing has to be for initial start up to pass emissions. In order to pass *** there has to be some overlap of the valves more so on the m52tu than the m54. When the vanos seals fail this can lead to a stall concern. The software does help but does nto eliminate this issue. If there were no emissions to worry about this could easly be fixed via software.

 

I have read plenty of M54 owners reporting cold start/stall problems. Here one just bumped up: http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=705131.

 

I have read plenty of M54 owners reporting cold start/stall problems. Here one just bumped up: http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=705131.

I see what you mean. So you think Rajaie's comments describing the difference between the M52TU and M54 in post #20 in this thread is wrong then?

 

Don't forget there are many examples of people on this message board who changed VANOS seals and still had the erratic cold idle stalling problem.

Sure would piss me off to go through the time, effort and cost of VANOS seal replacement like they did and then still have the damn idle problem.

.

 

Don't forget there are many examples of people on this message board who changed VANOS seals and still had the erratic cold idle stalling problem.

Sure would piss me off to go through the time, effort and cost of VANOS seal replacement like they did and then still have the damn idle problem.

.

Yes there are many simple people who believe the fuel/air mixture is controlled only by the vanos. But clear and concise information are all contained in a BMW PDF someone posted not too long ago. I'll leave you the adventure of locating and fixing all the systems that contribute to the fuel/air calculation. I can give you a clue however. About 5 or 6 different systems all work to make the magical mixture happen. When all these systems work correctly in concert, you will find yourself in the middle of an engineering symphony.