Engine is running Lean, close to triggering Lean codes.

DISA O-ring and DISA, and all the other usual suspects need to be ruled out. CCV and hoses, intake boots, vacuum connections, brake booster, cracked valve cover and leaking valve cover gaskets, leaking oil fill cap and so on. Also are consumables like filters, spark plugs and O2 sensors current?

Solve your misfires, lean codes, rough idle - https://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=897616

Temps are dropping and there will be MANY of these types of problems and posts for the nest 30-60 days.

Also unclear what finally happened with the fuel pressure bleed off in your other thread. Often the fuel pressure gauges can give erroneous readings. Residual fuel pressure should not drop below 43 PSI after 20 minutes, however, on most cars, it drops VERY little, no where near the 7-12 PSI in 20 minute.

In the future, please DO NOT post screen shots, they leave out so much information. Run a Diagnostic Report and SAVE the report, then either convert the report to a PDF or post via DropBox or some other file sharing service.

 

I have a cylinder 4 misfire on cold start that goes away after 5 - 10 seconds. No vacuum leaks. Where should I start?

Freeze frame and more https://imgur.com/gallery/GL2GG4R

Replace plug and if that doesn't fix the probem then swap coil with a different cylinder see if the code follows it. If it does then it's the coil. if it doesn't then you are probably looking at an inector problem. Problems that are temperature sensitive are unlikely to be electrical so I suspect it might be the injector anyway given what you say. Might just need cleaning. You could start by throwing some injector cleaning additive in the fuel and taking it for a burn. If that doesnt do it then do a fuel pressure and leak down test. BTW, you say there are no air leaks. Your fuel trims would suggest otherwise. They are indicating that your computer is having to increase the injector pulse width to accommodate for them. Not seriously so but they are there.

 

Hey, I still haven’t solved my hard start but I’m leaning towards a leaky injector in cylinder 4. This is all great information and more than I could ask for. I will start double checking over everything.

 

Hey, I still haven't solved my hard start but I'm leaning towards a leaky injector in cylinder 4. This is all great information and more than I could ask for. I will start double checking over everything.

A leaky injector would be indicated by doing a fuel pressure test and a leak down test. Your fuel rail should be primed to about 3.4 bar pressure when you switch on the ignition. Then what you do is switch off the ignition and the pressure should stay that way. If either an injector is leaking or your fuel regulator is malfunctioning then you will notice the pressure on the gauge go down slowly. If you witness that then you might be able to clamp the fuel rail feed hose after you have primed the rail to stop the fuel from leaking out through the regulator and if the pressure still drops then that confirms that an injector is leaking. But, before you go to those lengths I suggest you put some fuel system claening additive in your tank and run it a while. Might cure the problem. Altervatively you could remove the rail and injector assembly from the manifold and prime the rail and then watch the injectors to see if they are leaking. Be careful of the injector to manifld o-rings though. In fact I would replace them if I was going to do that. They may be contributing to your lean condition anyway.

 

For the first time in my life I was happy to see a Check Engine Light on. That helped me isolate my problem to cylinder 4. I replaced the injector in cylinder 4 and so far so good. I appreciate you guy's help. I had the parts already but you motivated me to get it done on my own. I cleared codes and went to get lunch, no issues. I will report back on my next cold start.

 

Doubt this is going to solve this problem.

Have you ever removed the DISA and/or replace the DISA O-ring?

Hell, my E46 had the DISA replaced under the new car Bumper To Bumper Warranty due to misfiring on cold start!

Have you smoke tested the intake and crankcase? Bet you will be doing this soon.

You do not need the SES/CEL/MIL on to find problems, even if it does come on, you still need to do basic troubleshooting and elimination of the known problem.

While there was only a single snapshot of data provided, the engine is running Lean and you will likely be triggering Lean codes in the near future and this is likely the cause of your current problem.

 

I did replace the DISA O-ring this year. It was surprisingly tight and tough to get in place so I would assume it's got a good seal. I did inspect it and there were no loose parts or rattling. I had my friend smoke test it with a Bosch tester. He pumped it through the intake boot, no leaks.

 

Did he remove the cover from over the fuel rail? You wouldn't necessarily see any smoke coming from the injector to manifold o-rings unless he did. Just a thought because the fuel trims seldom lie and they are certainly indicating lean condition. The LT ones are basically an historic record of the effort your computer has had to make to try to accomodate for what it thinks is too much O2 entering the intake or the exhaust. Of course. your MAF and/or pre cat O2 sensors could be telling lies too. Not that I think this has anything in particular to do with your C4 misfire. Misfirig on random cylinders perhaps but to me a particularly persistent cylinder is most likely to do with the components associated with it. Still, stranger things have happened I suppose.

 

OK, so you may be able to eliminate the DISA as a cause, but there are plenty of other problem areas well documented on these cars. But your description for installing the DISA almost sounds like you had too thick of an O-ring for the DISA, this is a COMMON problem, people use 1/8" O-rings or are provided 1/8" thick O-rings when the proper O-ring thickness is 3/32". If a 1/8" O-ring was used, these do not seat and seal properly.

The engine is running Lean from the single data bit provided, it needs to be corrected otherwise you will still have issues.

The other problem is most smoke tests are performed wrong, if there are cold start problems, the smoke test needs to be performed when the engine is dead cold from sitting overnight, not even started to move it into a Service Bay. Additionally the crankcase needs to be checked as well, requires air to be purged from the crankcase and often the top engine covers need to be removed and sometimes the coils need to be removed to find small hairline valve cover cracks.

Good luck, but I expect you have work to still do.

 

Now that you mention it, very well could be my MAF, especially if I don’t find any obvious vacuum leaks. Mine was faulty and he gave me a Siemens MAF that someone left at the shop. It works, but it’s curious that someone would “leave” a $200 sensor at the shop. Also, how often do these long term fuel trims reset because with my old MAF my trim was around 14 which was obviously throwing a lean code until I replaced the MAF. Is it possible these conditions are left over from a few months ago before I changed sensors? How would I reset them?

 

To reset them your scanner unless it’s just a generic obd2 reader you reset adaption. There’s a specific function just for that and if your scan tool doesn’t have it then unhook the battery for 15 minutes touch the positive and negative cable together before you hook the battery up, to discharge capacitors then hook the battery up and everything should be reset. NEVER touch together if it has power. You only have to jump together for about 20 seconds to discharge all the capacitors in the computer. Forcing it into reset itself.


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The easiest and cheapest thing to do is switch the coil with another from the car and see if the fault stays at that cylinder then it’s probably vacuum leak. But if it follows the coil then you have just found out the problem. Plus it’s free only a few minutes of labor. I wouldn’t ever start throwing parts at a car just to try to fix something. Trouble shoot and find the cause. Your wallet will thank you.


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I will run fuel trim logs on the way home to see if the injector made a difference or not. Thanks!

 

Injector didn’t fix it.

Fuel trim logs https://www.dropbox.com/s/55qesgi731vyj74/CSVLog_20181022_141105.csv?dl=0

 

Injector didn***8217;t fix it.

Fuel trim logs https://www.dropbox.com/s/55qesgi731vyj74/CSVLog_20181022_141105.csv?dl=0

Did you do the plug and coil swap thing?

 

I did, waiting for it to cool down before it would misfire. Will report back. Do those logs still indicate a vacuum leak?

 

Hmmmm.... https://imgur.com/gallery/f3spM0R

I used oil to lubricate the orings and they were all replaced like a week ago. Certainly if they weren't seated then they probably are now, but look what I just found! (See pics)

Is this the correct o-ring for the DISA 325i
https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/BK_7272136

 

Hmmmm.... https://imgur.com/gallery/f3spM0R

I used oil to lubricator the orings and they were all replaced like a week ago. Certainly if they weren't seated then they probably are now, but look what I just found! (See pics)

Is this the correct o-ring for the DISA 325i
https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/BK_7272136

Interesting. I have a similar problem. That DISA looks like someone has tried to put an O ring OVER the old O ring to make a seal. There are two types of DISA valve. Those that have a replacable O ring and those that don't. In the latter you are supposed to replace the whole DISA because the O ring is actually molded into the groove. I have never figured out which mine is. But I have bought a few O rings after making a few measurements of the DISA. I have offered them up to the DISA and none of them make me comfortable. I am going to have to dig out the old O ring and destroy it in order to measure the root diameter and witdth of the groove and then use that in conjunction with the bore diameter in the manifold to figure out an O ring. But if I do that and can't find an O ring to fit then I'm screwed. I will have to replace the whole thing which is a pisser because there is fech all wrong with it. So here is what I have done as an interim measure. I have put an O ring over the old one and right up to the shoulder of teh DISA. It actually worked. The only thing is that this seal don't go into the bore it is sandwiched between the manifold and the DISA body. This means that you can't torque the screws all the way. as before. I torqued them up so that there is a millimeter gap between that DISA body and the manifold. it is a 2.5 mm cross section O ring. You could do something like that and see if it makes a difference. But certainly what you have there is messed up. find out whether your DISA has a replaceable O ring. Use the part number off the body.

In the picture you can see TWO black O rings up against the shoulder of the DISA. That was the first attempt which I thought was a bit much. I removed one of them and that did the job.

 

I called it!!

Probably the Ford Probe thermostat housing O-ring or a typicaly ebay seller that is selling/misrepresenting the wrong part. The 323/328 have a "Serviceable" 1/8" O-ring, there is not official part listing for the 320/325/330 DISA.

Yes, the NAPA part will work and you will not cut/roll the O-ring when installing.

So before we get too far down the rabbit hole, lets get some more info.

1. How many miles are on the car?
2. What parts have you already replaced to date?
3. The title of this thread was Single Cylinder Misfire On Cold Start, was the engine dead cold when you replace the injector today?
4. Do you have additional Freeze Frame data from today's misfire? If no, ALWAYS run a Diagnostic Report and SAVE the Report BEFORE clearing codes!

While you could have a problem coil, secondary ignition has the easiest time on Cold Start: Rich Fuel Mixture, Low Cylinder Pressures, Retarded Ignition, Advanced Exhaust Cam Timing. This puts about the lightest load on the Secondary Ignition. Sure there can be temperature related connection issues, but these are rare.

No need to "Reset" Adaptations, they constantly Adapt. The main purpose for this feature is for shops to Clear Adaptations immediately after a repair so they so not need a long road test to see if the "fix" solved the customer complaint.

Fuel Trims are still high, they did drop at the end of the Log, BUT they were high during Cruise which is typically an under reporting MAF. The MAF value at idle also looked a bit low as well.

Before you do anything else major, get the DISA O-ring replaced with a 3/32" part, drive the car 3-4 days of normal driving then get the 3 Logs AND Diagnostic Report at no load Warm Idle (ignore any pop up warnings) as outlined in the PDF in this thread: http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=1097893

 

I called it!!

Probably the Ford Probe thermostat housing O-ring or a typicaly ebay seller that is selling/misrepresenting the wrong part. The 323/328 have a "Serviceable" 1/8" O-ring, there is not official part listing for the 320/325/330 DISA.

Yes, the NAPA part will work and you will not cut/roll the O-ring when installing.

So before we get too far down the rabbit hole, lets get some more info.

1. How many miles are on the car?
2. What parts have you already replaced to date?
3. The title of this thread was Single Cylinder Misfire On Cold Start, was the engine dead cold when you replace the injector today?
4. Do you have additional Freeze Frame data from today's misfire? If no, ALWAYS run a Diagnostic Report and SAVE the Report BEFORE clearing codes!

While you could have a problem coil, secondary ignition has the easiest time on Cold Start: Rich Fuel Mixture, Low Cylinder Pressures, Retarded Ignition, Advanced Exhaust Cam Timing. This puts about the lightest load on the Secondary Ignition. Sure there can be temperature related connection issues, but these are rare.

No need to "Reset" Adaptations, they constantly Adapt. The main purpose for this feature is for shops to Clear Adaptations immediately after a repair so they so not need a long road test to see if the "fix" solved the customer complaint.

Fuel Trims are still high, they did drop at the end of the Log, BUT they were high during Cruise which is typically an under reporting MAF. The MAF value at idle also looked a bit low as well.

Before you do anything else major, get the DISA O-ring replaced with a 3/32" part, drive the car 3-4 days of normal driving then get the 3 Logs AND Diagnostic Report at no load Warm Idle (ignore any pop up warnings) as outlined in the PDF in this thread: https://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=1097893

I'll start off by saying you are 100% correct that the DISA should be inspected every 20k miles or so. Since I just replaced this o-ring this year that would have been the last thing I would have suspected had you not mentioned it in this thread.

So to re-cap..
My car is a 2005 325i with 208,000 miles. Since I purchased the car earlier this year I have replaced ignition coils (bosch), spark plugs (bosch), air filter, MAF (Siemens), Fuel Pump, Fuel Filter w/ pressure regulator, Intake boot, water pump, expansion tank & some hoses. Maybe more, I will have to think about it.
I have been chasing this cold start misfire for a few days now. I feel a heavy vibration when I first start the car in the morning. After driving on the way to work (about 10 miles) I noticed a CEL, code reads - Misfire cylinder 4. No other codes present. That's when I made this post and shared some freeze frame data and fuel trim logs. Jfoj and other members here pointed out my fuel trims indicated a vacuum leak, but since I had a smoke check recently I did not think that was a possibility at first, but after he mentioned the DISA as a possible source of my misfire I decided to check it out. Turns out I was sold an O-ring for a 323i which is much thicker than the one I needed. I purchased this o-ring from Advanced Auto Parts since the NAPA part posted above was not available in my area at the time. It fit snug, almost "snapped" into place. I went on a drive for about 50 miles, here is a log of that trip.

In regards to my morning misfire, I replaced the fuel injector in cylinder 4 with new o-rings. This may have improved my long crank times but it did not fix my misfire. It's really too soon to tell if this made any improvements at all. Oh, and I did swap spark plug and Ignition coil from Cylinder 4 to Cylinder 1.

I will report back with more logs over the next few days to determine if any improvements are made, though I have noticed improved fuel economy, throttle response and smother shifts just on my first drive. No CEL as of yet.

 

The entire DISA O-ring issue has been covered for years here. The overall O-ring diameter can vary as bit because there is very little stretch giving the overall length of the material. This is really a stupid design trying to seal a 2 1/4" in or so opening on the ID with an O-ring, this should have been a face seal using a gasket or O-ring.

See the DISA section in this thread, Section #1: Solve your misfires, lean codes, rough idle - https://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=897616

Also read this: https://www.germanautosolutions.com/diy_tech/disa_repair_kit/m54_disa_kit_diy.php#oring_replace_diy

 

Actually, I did consider making a paper gasket. i bought some for the job. I haven't ruled it out. But that black O ring sealing the face seems to have done the job.

 

I have a bunch of the replacement O-rings on hand, once the original silicon seal is removed, then any time the DISA is removed, I replace the O-ring. Takes seconds on the cast silicon is removed. The DISA needs to be removed every 20k or so for inspection anyway IMHO. It is also helpful to remove to work in this area.

 

A few initial comments.

A. What is the history on the Pre-cat O2 sensors? Have you replaced these yet
Your car is a later model with Wideband Pre-cat O2 sensors, they should be replaced every 125k miles. This will not likely have much impact on Cold Start issues, but would play into the overall performance and economy of the vehicle.

B. You need to reconfigure OBDFusion to pick up the Wideband Pre-cat O2 sensors and disable the Logging on the standard Pre-cat O2 sensors which do not exist on this model. This is all outlined in the OBDFusion Logging PDF, assume you have referenced this?

C. Seems you are still Lean while Cruising. This may be the MAF, might be the Pre-cat O2 sensors, might be both.

D. Determine if there is really a cold start issue. Cold start issues tend to be due to air leaks. While you have performed a smoke test, you may need to smoke test again when the vehicle has sat overnight and also pay careful attention to the valve cover for leaks. But I would wait a bit to rule out other issues first. Depending on where this heads, this could be a burned exhaust valve and a compression and cylinder leakage test may be required. But the obvious issues need to be sorted out and eliminated unless you have easy access to the compression and cylinder leakage equipment.

E. Depending on when the SES/CEL/MIL comes on and what Freeze Frame info shows, this may not be a "Cold Start" problem. EVERY TIME the SES/CEL/MIL comes on, Run a Diagnostic Report and SAVE the Report BEFORE clearing codes. The Report will capture and save Freeze Frame data.

F. You may want to check the DME for coolant or oil intrusion as well:


https://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=1052977

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?p=9977321#post9977321

https://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?p=16833498&posted=1#post16833498

https://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=870338

http://site.ecudoctors.com/tech-data/BMW_325/BMW-325-M54-DME-ECU-MS43-Pinout.pdf

https://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=1236408

 

I have no touched any o2 sensors on any of my cars so this is a new one for me. I will look into the OBDFusion settings since it's been a while since I have configured it and I've changed phones since I had it setup last. I also think the MAF could be a issue since I got it for free and it had been replaced on someone else's car. At the time I was just happy to have it since it made my lean codes go away (previous owner used a oiled K&N cone air filter and ruined the MAF).

 

You may want to consider swapping the Bosch plugs for NGK

 

Oiled air filters do not specifically ruin MAF's, they can contribute to oil contamination that can typically be cleaned without a lot of problems.

The biggest problems with MAF's are Asian clone and counterfeit replacements that DO NOT WORK properly. They do not have the proper circuitry, components and cannot be calibrated over a wide range. The other problem is silicon contamination due to the conformal potting compound on the circuit board that "flows" or "creeps" over time and will get on the airflow detector. This silicon contamination cannot be cleaned off and this causes the MAF to slowly degrade over time.

With 208,000 miles on the car, it is really ready for its 2nd set of replacement Pre-cat O2 sensors. If I had $5 for ever car I come across with over 100-125k miles with original Pre-cat O2 sensors I would be a rich man. Suggest you repalce the Pre-cat O2 sensors with Bosch Direct fit sensors, check the Bosch Online Auto Parts Catalog for the proper part numbers then search around for decent pricing. Amazon has historically had good prices, but often your local auto parts store may have Online Discount Coupons that will allow local pickup. The unfortunate part is Wideband Pre-cat O2 sensors are about double the price of standard O2 sensors, expect to pay close to $100 each.

Maintenance, maintenance, maintenance!

But an older car will typically be cheaper to maintain as a DIYer than car payments, higher insurance rates, property taxes, etc.

 

Are those the sensors on the passenger side, directly on top of the exhaust manifold? They can be accessed from the top of the engine, correct? What kind of symptoms would I experience from a soft failing O2 sensor? Also would it be worth it to replace my MAF sensor first to see if that improves my O2 readings or you can pretty much tell the O2 sensors are going?
Is this the correct pre-cat 02 sensor for both banks? https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw-oxygen-sensor-front-17215

(I'm still waiting for a CEL to determine whether or not it is ignition coil or spark plug related. It did shake a bit this morning but not as bad as before, it also was about 15 degrees warmer, so....)

 

They can. Bank 1 is easy. But bank 2 may be a probem. On mine, for example, the recommendation is you have to remove the header to replace it which is a huge ball ache.

For teh correct sensors go to RealOEM.com, type in the last 7 digits of your VIN and go to Engine > Exhaust manifold > 3' E46 320i Lambda Probe Fixings and get the part numbers from the table. unlike plugs and coils they are not all the same.

 

Lets see, I suggest that you use the Bosch Online Auto Parts catalog - https://www.boschautoparts.com/en/auto/oxygen-sensors

17215 for Bank #1 and 17216 for Bank #2 are shown for this application assuming I picked the proper vehicle info. The Bosch Online Auto Parts Catalog has the ability to enter the VIN to speed up things.

I believe you may be able to use 17215 for both banks? I think the only difference is the color of the outer jacket for each part number, one may be black and the other gray. But you also pay a lot more for the 17216 as well. Your choice.

I also stated that Amazon usually has very good pricing at about $20 cheaper than FCPEuro. Sure FCPEuro has a Lifetime guarnatee, however, O2 sensors do not fail often and if you put another 125k miles on them, you really should not expect FCPEuro to replace the consumed/used sensors - https://www.amazon.com/Bosch-17215-...3WOY/ref=sr_1_2?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1540305518&sr=1-2&keywords=bosch+17216

The issue is the O2 sensors are likely originals in this car, they are sensors or "detectors" and are the only sensor on the vehicle that will "detect or measure" the final fuel mixture product. Most all other sensors are "Input sensors" the O2 sensors are "Output sensors".

The O2 sensors and MAF are the 2 most critical sensors on a modern vehicle. Aging or lazy O2 sensors tend to impact economy and performance, but not usually in obvious ways. The Wideband O2 sensors, assuming your car has these, are really far better at detecting the Air/Fuel mixture and providing more accurate feedback than the older, non Wideband O2 sensors. They are important for the overall fuel management and performance of the engine.

Not sure what guidance to give on MAF vs O2 sensor replacement. If the O2 senors are original, they are close to 100k miles overdue for replacement. The MAF, who knows, but once you have fresh O2 sensors you then will know quickly if there are still fuel control issues with the engine.

As for waiting for the SES/CEL/MIL and/or Codes. Do not hold your breath. There are many problems that occur without the SES/CEL/MIL and/or Codes being triggered. Misfires are usually felt LONG before a light or code is triggered. Even in 2018/2019 model vehicles this is true. You need to be proactive and watch for problems before they become problems. This is why having your own OBDII tool and understanding what the baseline measurements are is so important.

 

Well there have been some developments. I now have a misfire in cylinder 1 and cylinder 4, however I think the cylinder 4 code is left over from before I swapped coil and spark plug to cylinder one. I cleared the codes and I will wait to see what comes up when I leave work today, but this is the first time I have had a cylinder 1 misfire and it definitely did not feel like a multiple cylinder misfire.

Next I am going to swap ignition coil in cylinder 1 (originally 4) with cylinder 2 and leave the spark plug in cylinder 1 (from cylinder 4). If I get a misfire again in cylinder 1 then I can assume it's a faulty plug. If misfire moves to cylinder 2 then I can assume it's a faulty Ignition coil.

 

Might be an ignition problem, maybe not.

Note what the firing order on this engine is - Firing order is 1-5-3-6-2-4

Cylinder #1 is actually after #4 in the firing order. It is NOT uncommon for an adjacent cylinder in the firing order to cause a mis reporting of the offending cylinder. So maybe #1 is the culprit, maybe #4 is the culprit?

Again, without FREEZE FRAME data there is no way to get an idea under what conditions the problem is occurring.

I believe I have stated to make 100% sure EVERY TIME the SES/CEL/MIL comes on to run a Diagnostic Report and SAVE the Diagnostic Report BEFORE clearing codes. The Diagnostic Report will have an entire Freeze Frame summary included.

 

Looks like cylinder 4 misfire is back.. I'm lost. Also had a long crank as usual.

 

Have you done a compression on all cylinders to eliminate the rings and valves issue?