How many miles does your car have?

I think you're going a bit overkill - I wouldn't worry much about the plastic pulleys, especially in our moderate climate. Replacing just idler and tensioner pulleys (not even the whole unit) will suffice. Alternator bearing is usually solid and not easy to change, no need there unless alternator goes bad. I'd change out the water pump if you haven't already and reuse plastic pulley.

If dead reliability is what you're looking for I'd keep the stock fans. If one fails you'll always have the other to back it up.

I'm very surprised there were no noises. Usually once a bearings fails they will make a noise.

I think you'd gain more with semi regular engine checkups than unnecessarily replacing everything you can. Just listen around the engine every once in a while for grinding, tapping, knocking etc.

 

Yeah, I tend to agree that maybe you have gone a little overkill. I mean, where does it end? I would carefully examine the existing parts and only replace as preventative maintenance parts that may have small cracks, discoloration, etc. I'm not a fan of throwing parts at the car. The only exception for me would be to change the upper tensioner from mechanical to hydraulic. I'm a fan of the hydraulic over the mechanical.

 

I'm not sure what the FCP mango kit means, since I'm not from the US. I'm not sure about you, but it looks like you're from the UK, so isn't there a better supplier for you?

when looking on their site, I think you're talking about this kit: BMW E46 Cooling System Overhaul Kit - OE Supplier 376716261KT1

I don't know if there has ever been done any prior coolant work done to your car? If yes, how long ago? Especially with bad quality aftermarket ones, sometimes it might even be better to not touch them instead of replacing them. When looking at the kit I linked above, it looks like you're getting hoses from Rein. As far as I know, it is kind of a budget brand. I recently replaced my hoses as well, but I bought FEBI ones. My old BMW lower hose (maybe felt a bit old, but was still sealing really well) was better compared to my new FEBI one, since that one didn't even fit. This is always a discussion which can keep going on forever. Before I was like you and replacing everything while you're in there, but I changed a bit when experiencing quite a few bad aftermarket products. Also, my original lower hose and expansion tank were still in there, and my car has 300.000 km and is from 1999. Nothing was leaking, except my radiator which got smashed.

Which brings me to the next point which is in my opinion there is no need to change the radiator and plastic assembly in my opinion if it is not leaking and not damaged. The same with all the pulleys. Also, I'm not sure but correct me if I'm wrong, but the alternator still has a normal pulley, not a freewheel pulley which you can find in the E90. About the tensioner, someone above mentioned you can replace just the pulley which is right, but I don't think you can find them from reputable brands like SKF or INA.

If you're willing to spend a bit of money, better spend it on genuine BMW or OE at least instead of throwing money at all different parts you can find. It also depends of course on the job you're doing, but since the whole coolant + belt area is really easy to reach I wouldn't replace everything you can.

 

I'm not sure what the FCP mango kit means, since I'm not from the US. I'm not sure about you, but it looks like you're from the UK, so isn't there a better supplier for you?

when looking on their site, I think you're talking about this kit: BMW E46 Cooling System Overhaul Kit - OE Supplier 376716261KT1

I don't know if there has ever been done any prior coolant work done to your car? If yes, how long ago? Especially with bad quality aftermarket ones, sometimes it might even be better to not touch them instead of replacing them. When looking at the kit I linked above, it looks like you're getting hoses from Rein. As far as I know, it is kind of a budget brand. I recently replaced my hoses as well, but I bought FEBI ones. My old BMW lower hose (maybe felt a bit old, but was still sealing really well) was better compared to my new FEBI one, since that one didn't even fit. This is always a discussion which can keep going on forever. Before I was like you and replacing everything while you're in there, but I changed a bit when experiencing quite a few bad aftermarket products. Also, my original lower hose and expansion tank were still in there, and my car has 300.000 km and is from 1999. Nothing was leaking, except my radiator which got smashed.

Which brings me to the next point which is in my opinion there is no need to change the radiator and plastic assembly in my opinion if it is not leaking and not damaged. The same with all the pulleys. Also, I'm not sure but correct me if I'm wrong, but the alternator still has a normal pulley, not a freewheel pulley which you can find in the E90. About the tensioner, someone above mentioned you can replace just the pulley which is right, but I don't think you can find them from reputable brands like SKF or INA.

If you're willing to spend a bit of money, better spend it on genuine BMW or OE at least instead of throwing money at all different parts you can find. It also depends of course on the job you're doing, but since the whole coolant + belt area is really easy to reach I wouldn't replace everything you can.

Hiya, yep you're right. I didn't buy from FCPEuro, I assembled all the parts from various German/UK suppliers. The kit you linked is the one, except I based mine on the automatic one. If you read the description it mentions Mango (a user on one of these E46 forums). I assembled almost all BMW/OE, but there were some exceptions I found extremely difficult. E.g. I got FEBI Bilstein upper and lower hoses like you, they seem very highly rated but it's disappointing to hear they didn't for you. As far as I can tell no cooling work has been done on the car.

Tbh the reasons you list are exactly what prompted me to post this following a similar discussion with a family friend. Luckily everything I've ordered is returnable, but it's all a bit of a dilemma

Apart from the pulley, the car has no issues. The belts even look recent (not me), the hoses I can see seem old but still flexible -they've got nothing on e.g. the intake boots etc. You're right I think you can pickup a pulley that'll fit the main tensioner, maybe dayco. But I think the whole assembly was ~£25 for the whole tensioner assembly (INA brand) - complete with pulleys and dust caps.

Here's the complete list of parts on order, and brand names where OEM/OE. Tbh maybe one outcome from this thread is I trim this list down and remove any OEM stuff, take my chances with the old BMW stuff.

*ET I'll swap for BMW if it arrives and isn't OE/BMW logo scratched off. Oil cooler thermostat I thought I'd take my chances as BMW/OE is simply extortionate.

FEBI-32599 17127510952 Upper Hose
INA-538009210 11517509985 Water pump
BMW 07119904524 4x Hex bolt/washers
BMW 17111712963 Fan Shroud Clip
BMW 17117536972 Fan Shroud Screw
BMW 17111707817 (Lower) water distribution pipe
BMW 17111436251 Expansion Tank Bracket
FEBI-01617 17111742231 Expansion Tank Cap
Ctl 5PK865 11287636379 A/C Belt

FEBI-28521 11531436408 Lower Hose
FEBI-30125 11511436590 Water Pump Pulley

FEBI-45284 11531436410 Coolant Return Hose
FEBI-30645 13621433077 Auxiliary Fan Switch
Elring 242.608 07119963200 Crush Washer
Ctl 6PK1538 11287636379 Accessory Belt
Nissens 60782A 17119071519 Radiator (Auto Trans)
*Mahle CRT 116 000S 17117573781 Expansion Tank

*Ridex 316T0190 17111437362 Oil cooler thermostat
Mahle CFF 137 000S 17117561757 Electric Fan

INA-5320418100 11287841228 - Idler Pulley
INA-5330015100 11281427252 - Accessory Belt Tensioner (Mechanical)
INA-5340104100 11281433571 - A/C Belt Tensioner

FEB-30123 32421740858 Power Steering Pump Pulley

BMW 11281435114 Idler Pulley Dust Cap

If this list is overkill, what would be reasonable?

Pulleys, tensioners, belts, water pump, thermostat, ET, ET bracket?, coolant change

Also if not changing some of this stuff, what's the shelf life/eyes open/noob friendly approach? E.g. will the rad last my lifetime? Will it just catastrophically fail one day because it's 40 years old regardless of how low the mileage? Again, being a noob it's difficult to spot things that aren't right as you don't necessarily have the intuition/experience required to catch 'obvious' things as they occur.

 

Lost the idler pulley and threw both belts 20m into a journey, luckily it was -4C so temp gauge barely hit 10 O'Clock. There was no warning or sound, I suppose there have been some squeaks in the past.

Hmm, before the plastic balls keeper busted, I'm sure the rotating bearing had been squeaking for more grease but being ignored. Next time don't ignore the squeak and save more money.

 

Yeah think I said that in OP. Tbh I'm a noob and this is as much a learning/hobby/DIY car as it is a daily etc. Not always easy to know what you don't know, also more difficult these days as I hardly drive. My wife drives regularly, I'm the rare social/road trip driver.

No matter how attentive I am, I'll fuck up every now and then and do something stupid but that's how you gotta learn sometimes. Trying not to fuck up the opportunity a bit of luck and cold weather granted me though! Especially as I don't much like the idea of her losing power steering - didn't anticipate something like that.

A family friend mentioned the idler pulley wouldn't just fling itself off and the alternator pulley might have seized. I'm yet to check this, any merit to it in your opinion?

 

The idler pulley bearings do give up quietly sometimes. Had it happen in an E36 years ago. I just replaced both main idlers in my car as a preventative, because I thought one was making noise. Typical failure is lubrication failure, followed by wear of the bearing. If you know what it sounds like, you catch it before the balls wear so small that it just falls apart like yours.

The alternator? I think 74kmi is pretty low and it should last a while, but being this old, the grease is probably done just like the idler. Hard to say when bearings will give up. I'm not sure if the remanufactured alternators are still a guess in terms of quality.

 

Hey @4aceman

Thanks for all your help so far.

I'm going to replace the essentials, keep the mech fan (and inspect it later). Here's my new parts list, wondering if I can get your 2p on it, anything you think would be good to have on hand if I can get convenient returns (I.e. Autodoc), and some other questions.

Project parts list:

Priority 1:
Want to do this ASAP to get back on the road and get the essential 'while I'm there' bits crossed off.
1. INA-5320418100 11287841228 - Idler Pulley
2. AC Tensioner pulley 531089110
3. Main tensioner pulley 531089110
4. Ctl 5PK865 11287636379 A/C Belt
5. Ctl 6PK1538 11287636379 Accessory Belt
6. BMW Expansion Tank 17117573781
7. Wahler Thermostat
8. Saleri PA659S 11517509985 Water Pump
9. BMW Coolant + Distilled water

Priority 2:
I'll do this stuff ASAP but it doesn't block the project.
1. Idler dust cap 11281730349
2. 2x Tensioner pulley dust caps 11281435114
3. 1.4 bar ET cap 17111742232


Questions:
1. Can't find Saleri PA659S in stock anywhere, any recommendations? Looks like there's some doubt around PA659. I thought I read INA could be OE too but not sure now.
2. Oil cooler thermostat, what brand? Will it definitely break or just o-rings? If it's definite I don't mind spending the money, if it's good to have on hand then ideally an Autodoc brand or somewhere with decent returns policy
3. If I'm reusing stuff what o-rings and stuff might I need?
4. Anything you think will be good to have 'on hand' or might need
5. Is it worth draining the block? Probably won't need the crush washer then
6. Are the A/C and accessory pulleys the same part number? 531089110


Any of this essential or worth trying to have on hand?
❓FEBI-32599 17127510952 Upper Hose
❓BMW 17111436251 Expansion Tank Bracket
❓BMW 17111707817 (Lower) water distribution pipe
❓FEBI-30123 32421740858 Power Steering Pump Pulley
❓FEBI-28521 11531436408 Lower Hose
❓FEBI-30125 11511436590 Water Pump Pulley
❓FEBI-30123 32421740858 Power Steering Pump Pulley
❓FEBI-45284 11531436410 Coolant Return Hose
❓FEBI-30645 13621433077 Auxiliary Fan Switch
❓Elring 242.608 07119963200 Crush Washer
❓17111437362 Oil cooler thermostat
❓BMW 07119904524 4x Hex bolt/washers
❓BMW 17111712963 Fan Shroud Clip
❓BMW 17117536972 Fan Shroud Screw

 

1. Can't find Saleri PA659S in stock anywhere, any recommendations? Looks like there's some doubt around PA659. I thought I read INA could be OE too but not sure now.
2. Oil cooler thermostat, what brand? Will it definitely break or just o-rings? If it's definite I don't mind spending the money, if it's good to have on hand then ideally an Autodoc brand or somewhere with decent returns policy
3. If I'm reusing stuff what o-rings and stuff might I need?
4. Anything you think will be good to have 'on hand' or might need
5. Is it worth draining the block? Probably won't need the crush washer then
6. Are the A/C and accessory pulleys the same part number? 531089110

1. INA water pump I’m sure is as good quality, but I can see the Saleri one in Autodoc, it’s labelled as SIL. Good price too
2. Mine broke pulling the expansion tank out, which is very common. Broke as in snapped into multiple
pieces. I went genuine BMW but its expensive - at the time £60?. I’d go with a trusted aftermarket brand if you can find one
3. I’d replace the lower hose if your VCG has leaked oil on it and its swelling up. If so, you’ll an oring for the coolant temp sensor, that never reseals once its removed from the lower hose.
5. Draining the block is a huuuge mess, not worth it imo. Coolant doesn’t have to be 100% new but just have enough corrosions inhibitors and other additives to still work well.
6. The tensioner pulley is the same

No need to replace bolts or screws for any parts of the engine, nothing happens to them.

For the bracket and distribution pipe I wouldnt replace. They usually break on very high mileage cars when removing the expansion tank and radiator hoses. Since you still have low mileage I wouldnt be worried about them breaking.

 

The waterpump in the e46 is a difficult one for a lot of persons, but I think it is very easy. If you want the best one out there, go for the Stewart one, but I think it is kind of overkill. These ones should last a very long time, but for me it isn't a big problem if my waterpump is on a replacement schedule. I bought one from SKF, and I'm happy with it. It has a plastic impellor, but it looks like it is from pretty good quality. Like I said, these one are definitely not meant to be in there forever, and should eventually be changed. There also exist waterpumps with the metal impeller, and these on general will be stronger compared to the plastic one, but they will put more load on the bearings since they are heavier. I think at the end it doesn't really matter which one you buy (of course from a reputable brand), as long as you keep changing it on an interval. I read pretty good things about Saleri, GRAF, GEBA, HEPU, Bosch and others. Most of them have a metal impeller.

About the oil cooler thermostat, to be honest I don't know. For what I could find, the OE supplier for this part is Behr, but it looks like they are not really available. When checking on Autodoc, there don't seem to be a lot of trusted manufactures out there selling these. I would probably check the genuine BMW price for this, and when they are not that expensive buy one from there.

About the new o-rings, you're talking about for example the radiator hoses and stuff? I would probably inspect them, and when they look bad, just replace the whole hose. I don't think it is worth replacing these o-rings with new ones since your hose will be quite old as well. If they need replacement, probably the best thing to do would be to buy genuine BMW ones from the dealer. The bottom one (here in the Netherlands) is 60 euros, and the top one around 70 euros. They are a bit more expensive, but in my opinion definitely worth it if you want to keep them in there for a long time.

I wouldn't drain the coolant from the block, just from the radiator and the coolant expansion tank. Probably when you remove some hoses and the thermostat / waterpump, some more coolant will drop out, especially when removing the lower radiator hose, but in my opinion there is not need to remove any drain bolt on the block or something. When removing these hoses and the thermostat and waterpump almost all coolant will get out.

You mean the pulleys on the tensioners? I don't know since the tensioners have different part numbers.

 

Yeah I ruled out the Stewart, not worth it and it remains to be seen whether the metal impeller and extra weight actually helps or hinders. I think OE quality composite is fine, mine current one is 20yo with no issues.

Yeah looks like I'll have to pony up for BMW oil cooler. No meaningful saving going aftermarket, but increased risk. Not sure why it's so pricey now.

I guess I'll think about the hoses. Not sure if I'd rather risk a pair of FEBI hoses given the big price difference.

Yeah won't bother draining the block. Regular coolant changes will sort that out eventually.

Thanks for your input man!

 

Car is an '03 (07/2002) 330i auto m sport.

A minor yet important point: 07/2002 production date makes it a 2002, not a 2003.
Most model years start on September 1, although oddly 2004 started on March 1, 2003 because of some significant changes.

 

Yeah in the UK the year the car was registered is in the numberplate and it's generally used interchangeably with production year.

For the benefit of future (UK) noobs - my car is an '03 plate but the VIN reveals it to be an '02 production which is what I need to refer to it as when sourcing parts, most importantly for this project is it's build date is prior to 09/2002 which means it probably uses the old style mechanical A/C tensioner with the protruding hex bolt and 5 rib (5PK) A/C belt (I double checked the A/C tensioner and as expected my car uses the old one).

Cheers Bali, and merry Christmas all!

 

Hey @4aceman @andrebimmerandre how do these WP pulley bolts look to you? Any reason I ought not use them?

Amazon.co.uk

I cracked the WP pulley and slightly bent the head for one of the bolts.

1. Should I try to straighten that bolt out and reuse?
2. If no, should I replace just that one bolt with new?
3. I think there are washers too which I plan to reuse, any issues with that?

Thankfully I have a brand new FEBI WP pulley to hand. Bloody s**t fan tool holder holes are off. Luckily I'd cracked the clutch nut free and the bent head meant the holder fit so the fan came off easily after that.

Seems like a ridiculously common issue that fan tool holder holes aren't the right dimensions.

For any future lurkers, some tips:

• Try the easy hammer method instead
• Don't remove clutch nut if you can only grip one WP bolt
• Penetrating fluid or WD40 between the nut and pulley is your friend.
• Once you've cracked the nut free you can just rotate the fan off by hand, if you've got no belts you'll most likely still need to hold the pulley still while you do this. Either wrap an old belt around the pulley to hold it still or use the fan clutch holder tool on >= 1 WP pulley bolt (after you've cracked the clutch nut free)

 

Hey @4aceman @andrebimmerandre how do these WP pulley bolts look to you? Any reason I ought not use them?

Amazon.co.uk

I cracked the WP pulley and slightly bent the head for one of the bolts.

1. Should I try to straighten that bolt out and reuse?
2. If no, should I replace just that one bolt with new?
3. I think there are washers too which I plan to reuse, any issues with that?

Thankfully I have a brand new FEBI WP pulley to hand. Bloody s**t fan tool holder holes are off. Luckily I'd cracked the clutch nut free and the bent head meant the holder fit so the fan came off easily after that.

Seems like a ridiculously common issue that fan tool holder holes aren't the right dimensions.

For any future lurkers, some tips:

• Try the easy hammer method instead
• Don't remove clutch nut if you can only grip one WP bolt
• Penetrating fluid or WD40 between the nut and pulley is your friend.
• Once you've cracked the nut free you can just rotate the fan off by hand, if you've got no belts you'll most likely still need to hold the pulley still while you do this. Either wrap an old belt around the pulley to hold it still or use the fan clutch holder tool on >= 1 WP pulley bolt (after you've cracked the clutch nut free)

Did you take into consideration that the 4 bolts on the water pump pulley are not evenly spaced? If you rotate the pull by 90deg, the distance between the bolts would be different which may be why your tool's holes are off.

How much are the new bolts? If not expensive, it's probably worthwhile to replace if you know they are bent.

 

Bent fasteners are scrap. Period.

If hammering on the water pump like the clip above, replace the water pump. Or you will be replacing it in short order.

I made my own fan tool, like the large spanner in the clip to hold the pump. If using the type that goes over two bolts, I'd guess they are intended to use two bolts rather than one bolt and pushing on the fan nut. The difference in force on the bolts is tremendous.

 

Cheers will just change the bolt(s). Will be replacing water pump, also I got lucky and didn't need the 'hammer trick'.

Yep, definitely intended to go across two bolts. In hindsight have also read about people having luck supporting the pulley with a long screwdriver - again across two bolts not one.

Impatience was my problem, luckily not a huge deal but pretty stupid and extra hassle!

 

I would definitely replace the bolt in case it is bended. You can put any kind of bolt in there as long as it has the same dimensions and thread size as the old one. I'm not sure if the bolts are the same for all water pumps for the 6 cyl e46 cars, but when looking on BMWfans, I found one for a 2004 330Ci, and it is using a this BMW number: 07119904524. And when looking in the column next to it, it says these bolts have the following specification: M6X16-U1-8.8. That would mean the one you linked won't fit, since that is a M5 bolt. If you really want to, you can order a few ones from the dealer, but I would recommend going to a local shop where they sell bolts and get a few from there.

 

Cheers! Very good spot, I already found the part number and spec but the Amazon listing got me. Said it was an M6x16 even says so on my order confirmation by the 'option' is indeed an m5 like you noticed so I'll pickup a few bolts locally!

 

There are all kinds of ways to do things. A saw will work to remove the fan....if you are willing to replace the fan and water pump. Curiously, the fan tools serve a purpose.

 

Is it worth picking up a cooling/radiator pressure tester kit?

Wondering if it makes sense to test before and after cooling system work for any leaks.

If so, any recommendations? I have a compression test kit I've used for fuel pressure testing but that doesn't really apply pressure, nor come with ET/rad caps

 

Not worth the cost IMO unless you're chasing down a leak you can't find.

You'll know if it's leaking because your coolant level will go down, just check it every couple weeks with your oil level checks

 

Thanks for all the help everyone. Got the car back on the road the other night! Just belts and pulleys for now. Will refresh the cooling system later this year.

Here's a video of the first start after a month

How does it sound/look to all your trained ears? Anything concerning?



The fan clutch was extremely dirty and greasy on the radiator side, thicker layer than I've seen in photos/videos. What does everyone make of that, is it on the way out? I'm keen on the electric fan conversion anyhow. Should I clean it and do the conversion later in the year?

There's also always been a slight burning metallic smell from the kidney grilles after a long drive but it was a bit stronger after that first (long) test drive the other day. It seemed strongest on the backside of the radiator near the fan clutch. Anyone noticed this before? Cause for concern?

 

The fan clutch was extremely dirty and greasy on the radiator side, thicker layer than I've seen in photos/videos. What does everyone make of that, is it on the way out?

The viscous clutch leaks its thick oily fluid out. Most likely yours is shot by now.

 

Sounds ok to me. Does your radiator look to be original? I noticed you were on the fence about the radiator hoses and doesn't look like you replaced those. If they are original, I would schedule a weekend to replace those. Lower mileage certainly helps, but the plastic and rubber is still 20 years old now. Having only owned manual E46s, I can say the electric fan is convenient for any work that needs to be done on the front of the engine. I can't comment on performance of the electric fan on an AT car.

 

Hey! Yep radiator is original and in good condition from what I saw. I inspected the hoses too and they also looked in excellent condition. Bit dirty, but still very flexible with no bulging or warping. No oil leaks or anything on them.

I don't think they've ever been disconnected, the cars not been used much, no and we have a mild climate here.

Instead of replacing them, I will be trying to reuse because of the discussion you can see on previous posts.

I ordered a cooling system o ring seal kit from America and so I will change the o-rings on the hoses and anything else that needs doing when I get to it.

New items I'm doing:

• Wahler Thermostat
• Saleri P659S Waterpump
• BMW Genuine expansion tank
• BMW Genuine 1.4 bar ET cap
• New o-rings as recommended/necessary
• Mahle/Behr (OE) Oil Cooler Thermostat
• Coolant (BMW + distilled water)

- Have already done INA (OE) Idler, AC tensioner, accessory tensioner pulleys, continental belts, and (FEBI) water pump pulley because I broke mine

I don't think coolant hoses are catastrophic failure items though so if mine are in good condition that beats aftermarket surely. They might leak but with new o-rings probably not even that.

Yeah I'm leaning towards the fan conversion. The risk of catastrophic failure exists for the mech fan too - if anything it's less for the electric because the mech fan is actually known to go boom.

A coolant temp alarm and temp gauge mod make it a no brainer imo. Especially considering I can probably do it well for a fraction of the price of sorting my dying mech fan!