Who are these older members coming out of the woodwork lately?

 

OT but you got your M3 taken care of under the airbag recall? Did you get a letter or ask the dealer?

 

Taking car to the dealer for the recall next Tuesday. No letter, the dealer called me.

 

I know I know. But 0w-60 oils are $17.5/L in Canada, so just the oil and filters will be $100+. I usually take it to an indy shop but I had to get an alignment done at the dealer so got lazy and let them do the oil change too. Big mistake!

 

I hate taking cars anywhere for stuff like oil changes. Had one place strip out my oil plug and then claimed I probably did it trying to do it myself.

My mom took her car to a quick lube place when I was in high school and they didn't tighten the drain plug. Fvcking thing fell out while I was driving it and blew the motor.

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OMG they forgot to change the oil! ALERT THE MEDIA!!!!111

 

Is not that they forgot to change the oil. Is the service MANAGER telling me the oil looks fine after showing him the picture and refuse to do anything. :censor:

and guys I live in a condo so cant DIY and I usually take it to an indy shop for oil change. But I was at the dealer for an alignment so it was more convenient to just let them do the oil change too.

 

I feel ya man. I've had some bad experiences with dealerships and service people lying to my face. See, most of the customers they deal with are idiots who don't know any better, so they can get away with it. Your story isn't going to stop them from charging and not performing any work. Unfortunately it's all too common.

Your best bet is to DIY, or find a local forum member who can do it for you. I bet if you drove to someone's house and paid them $100 and gave them the oil (buy it online) they would gladly do it. Avoid the dealer at all costs.

 

Lol at even $100 oil change.

 

he's in canada. so his $200 oil change was really like a $46 american oil change. good deal.

 

I won't go after you for paying $200 for an oil change, but I will agree with you that

1) Your oil change was definitely not performed.
2) The service manager not even going "wow, yeah, we messed up, sorry about that -- lemme fix that for you" reflects poorly on not only the dealer, but on him as a person.

I would keep at it, and keep raising a stink. Don't give up on this.

 

LOL at guys with auto 323i's laughing/being confused about M3 oil+filter being $100.

As for OP's trouble, I totally agree with you. I too would raise hell over it. It doesn't matter if it cost you $10 or $500. If you paid for service, you should get it

 

Lol at being a BMW fanboy. My maintenance costs have gone down 80% since I ditched BMW and I have no less comfort or fun in my driving.

 

Oil changes are one of those things that I simply won't let a shop do. Ever. It's a piss simple job. Therefore, it's probably going to be given to the dumbest tech in the shop.

 

Some of us don't have the option to change our own oil without it being utterly inconvenient.

 

Yeah, I'd be pissed too. Also wouldn't go back to that dealership. Ever. Got to trust your mechanic. Shady ones, especially techs who work flat rate, will cut corners on things they think you can't verify.

 

I dvont get it, from the pictures, the oil looks more golden. And the filter looks fresher... Am I missing something here??


Edit: OHHHHHHH ok that sucks yeah don't go there

 

Root cause: OP had someone else do an oil change on his car...

 

If your car is under warranty do you have to go to the stealer for oil changes? I imagine if there is an engine problem the first thing they will do is blame you.

 

You don't have to, but you'd be stupid not to: they're built-in with the maintenance plan. If your maintenance plan is out, then there's no point in going to the dealer for oil changes.

 

 

I stopped reading after he said he took the car to the dealership for an oil change :lmao:

OP, what did you expect was going to happen? I trust a shady oil lube joint 50x more than I trust the dealership.


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I stopped reading after he said he took the car to the dealership for an oil change :lmao:

Solid point lol

 

The biggest benefit to rear wheel drive is that it spreads the loads of the car across all four tires of a car. In a rear wheel drive car the rear wheels do the pushing while the front wheels are reserved for the steering duties. In front wheel drive cars the front tires must perform both functions. Each front tire in a front wheel drive car must do two tasks. Both the cornering forces and the engine acceleration/deceleration forces in a front drive car act on the same tire.




So in a front drive the tires capacity can be easily exceeded. In a rear drive car the rear tires handle the engine acceleration/deceleration while the front only need to handle the steering forces. Not only does this balance the load on the tires but it reserves the front tires exclusively for the all important steering duties.
Other Benefits to Rear Wheel Drive.
O.K., some assumptions : All comparisons are of equal weight cars without traction control. Braking comparisons assume maximizing the ability (two feet on the pedal pressing as hard as possible) of a perfectly working four channel anti-lock brake system.

Better weight balance. Most rear wheel drive cars have the engine in the front and the drive components in the rear. Front drive cars have everything up front. By properly balancing the front and rear of the car you can improve the handling, acceleration, braking, and thus safety of a car.
Better acceleration. On all but the slipperiest surfaces rear wheel drive cars accelerate faster than a front drive car from a stop. This is because when you accelerate quickly from a stop the weight of the car transfers to the rear of the car. In a rear drive car this places extra weight on the rear of the car, essentially jamming the tires into the road greatly increasing traction. In a front drive car, when the weight goes to the rear, weight is taken off of the front wheels. This allows the front wheels lose traction and spin easier. If the wheels are spinning not only does this slow you down but it also makes it difficult to steer the car. In the rear drive car the front tires are available for steering even if the rears have lost traction.
Better Road Holding. The better weight balance of rear wheel drive allows the car to handle better. The more even weight allows the car to drive neutrally through a corner. This means both the front and rear of the car have near equal loads acting upon them. In a front drive car the the heavy front end causes the front end to have a higher load on it. This will cause the front tires to eventually lose grip well before the rear tires are fully loaded. Front tires on front drive cars do much more work than the rears causing them to wear out much faster. It is best to balance the load as best you can among the four tires. If you are accelerating or slowing down (engine braking) these forces will act upon the already heavily loaded front tires of a front drive car. In a rear drive car the front tires are left for steering even when accelerating or engine braking. Sharing the work among all four tires is the key.
Better Stopping. Because of the better balance rear drive cars brake better. When you stop a front drive car the excess weight in the front of the car allows the force on the front tires to exceed the limits of the tires. The relatively low weight on the rear of a front drive car does not allow the tires to be used to their maximum ability. When panic stopping weight will transfer to the front in both rear and front drive cars but there is more weight left for rear braking action in the rear drive car.
No Torque Steer. Front wheel Drive cars have a problem known as Torque Steer. This occurs when the acceleration of the engine effects the cars steering. Since the driveline is connected to the steering wheels the torque of the engine applies force to the front wheels causing the car to pull to the right during acceleration. Rear Drive cars do not have this problem since the engine is not connected to the steering gear.
Better Ride and Feel. The light front end of the car allows it to "turn in" to a corner easier. The car feels more nimble and controllable. Since the front is not so heavy it is not burdened by needing strong springs to keep it under control. This allows the suspension to be set up softer while maintaining good control ability. The absence of drive shafts (half shafts) and CV joints in the front of the car allows the front suspension to be designed for maximum steering efficiency. The lower rotating weight of the front wheel assemblies improves steering response and ultimate grip. Granted that a rear drive car has more weight at the rear but it can be handled by the underutilized (compared to the front tires in a front driver) rear tires.
Better Serviceability / More Rugged. Ever notice that cops and taxis avoid front wheel drive like the plague? That is because rear wheel drive cars are more rugged and easier and cheaper to fix.
Better Ultimate Ability.. Purpose built race cars are almost always rear wheel drive. In production based racing series front wheel drive cars are given a performance advantage to make them equal to rear drive cars. Usually this is in the form of a weight break. Granted we shouldn't be driving our cars like race cars on the street but in an emergency having the extra ability in the car is an advantage I would like to have.
So why do automakers use front drive cars?
Well I guess there are a couple of good reasons I can think of. Anybody else have any more? If so e-mail me and let me know.
Traction in Snow and Ice. When not under hard acceleration front drive cars have more weight over the front wheels. This gives more traction for acceleration in very slippery conditions. This is the biggest perceived advantage to a front drive car. However, today's rear wheel drive cars with traction control and independent suspension do very good in the snow. But for areas of the country that have extreme amounts of winter weather this may be enough to justify a front wheel drive car.
Packaging. In front drive cars the engine and drivetrain can be pre-assembled as one unit and then popped in to the car during assembly. This probably leads to a more efficient assembly operation.
Cost. Due to easier manufacturing and a few less components it may be cheaper to manufacture a FWD car.
Passenger/Trunk Space. Since you do not need to run a driveshaft down the middle of the car you may be able to get more interior room. Funny that front drive cars have a hump down the middle anyway! Not having a rear drive suspension can allow the trunk area to be larger.

 

I refuse to purchase a FWD car. While the Acura is a very stable car, and requires very little work -- having had 3 Infiniti G's (1 G20 95, 1 G35 03, 1 G 25 11) I can tell you that those cars have no soul. There is no emotional attachment to those cars, like you get with a BMW. (01 3er, 05 5er, 03 3er)

Can I quantify this? No. There is something about the BMW that only BMW has, Audi is getting it, but each one of these cars -- aren't perfect. The BMW requires maintenance, but like was said above, I love working on my car. And to be honest, the time I spend working on my car, I've got my music on, a case of beer, and just my thoughts. Its cheaper than a shrink, and many times it keeps me sane. I think many of us can empathise with this feeling.

So the Acura Type S is likely a good compromise car, if you won't want maintenance costs ever, and still want a premium sport sedan. However, I think the Acura is the only "sports sedan" one can purchase without maintenance costs.

- Infiniti G
- Infiniti M
- BMW 1er
- BMW 3er
- BMW 5er
- Audi A/S3,4,5,6
- Mercedes anything

All require maintenance.

 

I refuse to purchase a FWD car. While the Acura is a very stable car, and requires very little work -- having had 3 Infiniti G's (1 G20 95, 1 G35 03, 1 G 25 11) I can tell you that those cars have no soul. There is no emotional attachment to those cars, like you get with a BMW. (01 3er, 05 5er, 03 3er)

Can I quantify this? No. There is something about the BMW that only BMW has, Audi is getting it, but each one of these cars -- aren't perfect. The BMW requires maintenance, but like was said above, I love working on my car. And to be honest, the time I spend working on my car, I've got my music on, a case of beer, and just my thoughts. Its cheaper than a shrink, and many times it keeps me sane. I think many of us can empathise with this feeling.

So the Acura Type S is likely a good compromise car, if you won't want maintenance costs ever, and still want a premium sport sedan. However, I think the Acura is the only "sports sedan" one can purchase without maintenance costs.

- Infiniti G
- Infiniti M
- BMW 1er
- BMW 3er
- BMW 5er
- Audi A/S3,4,5,6
- Mercedes anything

All require maintenance.

Shut the **** up.

 

:rofl: talking about performance driving characteristics of daily driven non-tracked vehicles

Edit: also "I've owned three infinitis, let me tell you why Acura sucks."

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Where did I say Acura sucks? :hmm:

Yes, these cars (save the G20) that I owned had performance driving characteristics, even though they never saw the track.

If there were no performance driving characteristics for these cars, then why not just purchase a Corolla? :hmm:

 

Many car buyers are confused by the matter of which wheels actually drive the vehicle, and which is best for their particular needs. There are four main choices: front-wheel drive, rear-wheel drive, four-wheel drive or all-wheel drive. Each has its advantages, and no single layout is best for all situations.
It will help to understand a device known as the differential. If you imagine a pair of wheels on an axle going around a turn---and a turn, for this discussion, is anything that is not absolutely straight---then it becomes apparent that the wheel on the outside of the turn must travel a greater distance than the wheel on the inside. Therefore, it must also rotate faster. To allow this "differential" rate of speed between the wheel on the inside of the turn and the wheel on the outside, there is a device called, appropriately enough, a differential. It is comprised of a set of gears, arranged so that power will be delivered to both wheels, while still allowing them to rotate at different speeds if need be. Another characteristic of a common, "open" differential is that it will deliver power equally to both wheels as long as they both have equal traction. But, if one wheel is easier to turn than the other---as, for example, if one wheel is on ice---the open differential will send the power to that wheel which is easiest to turn, causing that wheel to spin and resulting in the vehicle not having enough traction to keep moving. Thus, there are a variety of systems, under the term of "limited-slip differentials," which "limit" the "slip" that might occur if one wheel is on a slippery surface. These limited-slip differentials are popular with people who must drive in conditions in which they frequently encounter poor traction, such as ice or snow.
Another thing to consider is what engineers call weight transfer. As a vehicle accelerates forward, its weight is transferred to the rear, onto the rear wheels. As it stops, its weight is transferred to the front, onto the front wheels. This is why any vehicle "squats" at the rear when the driver steps on the accelerator, or "dives" at the front when the driver steps on the brakes.
With those things in mind, let's discuss some characteristics of various drive layouts.
Rear-wheel drive
With rear-wheel drive the rear wheels drive the vehicle. For decades, rear-wheel drive was the system of choice, primarily because it is easy to manufacture, simple, inherently robust and reliable. The typical rear-wheel drive layout consisted of an engine in front, connected to a transmission, then the power went through a driveshaft to the rear-axle gears and then the rear wheels. Almost all trucks---except a few light-duty models---have been rear-wheel drive. If you look under the rear of a typical pickup truck you will see the rear axle housing, which has a big lump, or bulge, in the center, roughly the size of a pumpkin or basketball. Inside that bulge will be found the ring-and-pinion gears---which transfer power from the driveshaft to the wheels, provide the appropriate gear ratio and also allow the power to make the right-angle turn from the driveshaft to the wheels---and the gears and assembly that make up the differential. By the way, the ring-and-pinion gears---also known as the final drive---are not the differential, and you can have one without the other.

With rear-wheel drive the rear wheels move the vehicle and the fronts provide steering. Thus, there is somewhat of a division of labor. The advantages of rear-wheel drive are based upon the application. For trucks and heavy-duty vehicles, rear-wheel drive offers rugged durability and, as the load is increased, the traction also increases, because that load pushes down on the driving wheels. For passenger cars, rear-wheel drive offers the capability to deal more effectively with higher engine outputs and higher vehicle weights. Luxury cars, for example, tend to have rear-wheel drive. All true sports cars have rear-wheel drive, and all purpose-built race cars, such as those raced in Formula One Grand Prix racing, or in NASCAR, have rear-wheel drive. For performance applications, a primary advantage of rear-wheel drive is that weight transfer causes traction to be increased with acceleration---the more acceleration, the more weight transferred to the rear wheels and the more available traction, all of which enhances acceleration.

A rear-wheel drive vehicle also has a more equitable balance of the vehicle's weight front-to-rear, so each tire carries a more equal share of the load, which leads to improved cornering response and higher potential cornering limits. Finally, a rear-wheel drive vehicle can offer potentially superior braking performance because, when the brakes are applied, the weight is more equitably allotted among all four wheels.

By the way, in case you're interested, the ideal weight distribution, as it is known, for maximum performance---as with a pure race car---is to be rear-wheel drive and tail-heavy. This helps acceleration, because there is more weight on the rear, driving wheels, and also helps braking because, under the extreme weight transfer that occurs during braking in racing conditions, the vehicle's weight then becomes more evenly distributed among all four wheels, so each of the four wheels can make a maximum contribution to stopping power. A high-powered, pure race car, such as those that race at Indianapolis or in Formula One, will have roughly 35 percent of its total weight on the front wheels and 65 percent on the rear wheels.
Front-wheel drive
With front-wheel drive the engine, transmission, final drive gears and differential are in a single unit and drive the front wheels. Most modern sedans, and particularly those in the medium and lower price ranges, or with more moderate power levels, have front-wheel drive. There are two basic reasons for front-wheel drive: better fuel economy and enhanced space efficiency. By combining the entire powertrain into one unit, the remainder of the vehicle can be made much lighter in weight. It can also be made roomier inside for passengers and cargo, because the engine, transmission and other powertrain components intrude less into that available space. Therefore, all minivans are front-wheel drive; without front-wheel drive they simply could not offer the space efficiency that makes them so popular.

Front-wheel drive has some operational advantages, as well. With all that weight concentrated over the driving wheels, it offers very good traction on slippery surfaces at relatively lower speeds. Thus, front-wheel drive cars perform very well in snowy conditions, or on ice. People who live in places with frequent bad weather understand these benefits of front-wheel drive.

A typical front-wheel drive car will carry about 65 percent of its weight on the front wheels, so a major disadvantage of front-wheel drive is related to weight transfer. Under harder acceleration, weight is transferred off the driving wheels, so traction is reduced. Under harder braking, even more weight is transferred to the front wheels, so they have to do the vast majority of the work. Therefore, on a front-wheel drive car, the front tires and the front brakes wear out much faster than those on the rear. But, on the flip side, a front-wheel drive car, with all that weight on the front, will generally be very good at what engineers call "directional stability," or the tendency to keep going straight. This can tend to make a front-wheel drive car very stable at highway speeds during crosswinds, for example.

It is true that there are several front-wheel drive cars which offer quite exemplary levels of performance but, in absolute terms, and assuming equal levels of power, weight, expense and engineering sophistication, a front-wheel drive car will never match the maximum performance capability of a rear-wheel drive car.
Four-wheel drive
To understand the benefits and limitations of pure "four-wheel drive," it's important to go back to that initial discussion regarding the wheels on a given axle rotating at different speeds as that axle---or the vehicle in question---goes around a turn. And remember, a turn is anything that is not absolutely straight. So consider: Not only do the outside wheels travel a greater distance than the inside wheels, the front wheels travel a greater distance than the rear wheels. If you think not, drive any four-wheeled vehicle through a puddle of water to get the tires wet, then immediately turn the steering into a sharp turn, and observe the four paths of the four tires. You can do this with a child's wagon, or a shopping cart.

In pure, basic four-wheel drive, such as is found in many trucks, sport utility vehicles and military vehicles, the vehicle operates in two-wheel drive until four-wheel drive is engaged by the driver. Typically, this means the vehicle has rear-wheel drive until four-wheel drive is in operation, and until that time the front-wheel drive portion of the system is just along for the ride. This engagement is handled in a device known as a "transfer case." In the most basic systems, when four-wheel drive is engaged the transfer case positively, mechanically locks the front and rear drive systems together and, therefore, the front and rear wheels are mechanically forced to rotate at the same speed. But, remember that bit about front and rear wheels traveling different distances in a turn? If you lock a basic four-wheel drive system into four-wheel drive, you must do it---and this is a very emphatic must---only if the vehicle is on a surface that is slippery enough to allow the front and rear wheels to slip a little bit, such as snow, ice or bad mud. Pavement on a rainy day is not slippery enough, so the basic four-wheel drive system is not for rainy days on paved surfaces. It is, instead, specifically for very low-traction surfaces. If you put a pure, basic four-wheel drive system into four-wheel drive while on a good surface you will---not might; will---either destroy the tires or destroy something in the driveline. The transfer case, for example, or perhaps driveshaft universal joints, will simply have a catastrophic failure.

But four-wheel drive is great for those very low-traction situations, as shown by its capabilities in deep snow or for serious off-roading. And there are many, more modern four-wheel drive systems, which have automatic engagement. One typical method is for the system to monitor individual wheel speeds and thus "sense" when one or more wheels is slipping, and then electrically or mechanically engage the system. With these systems, the driver doesn't have to do anything and, in fact, may not even be aware the system is engaged.
All-wheel drive
To deal with the limitations of four-wheel drive, and to offer all-wheel traction all the time, there are various all-wheel drive systems. These are too numerous in design details to list every variation here but, in very general terms, they are roughly similar to a four-wheel drive layout but with some assembly or device that allows a certain level of slip between the front and rear wheels. In very simple terms, think of a four-wheel drive system, and then add a differential in that transfer case, configured so as to allow differential rates of speed front-to-rear. If it went no further than that, however, it wouldn't work, because it would send the power to the wheel that was easiest to turn (remember that bit about the open differential?) and therefore all four wheels would have to have good traction, all the time. So, to that differential-type device in the transfer case, add a limited-slip capability, and you have the fundamental concept of all-wheel drive. Think of it as a system that can send power to all four wheels, all the time, and still allow the necessary different rates of wheel speeds.

The benefit of all-wheel drive is that it is, typically, "on" all the time, so the driver doesn't have to do anything, doesn't have to move a lever or engage the transfer case, to make it work. If the vehicle is in motion, the system is working. However, for very heavy-duty off-road situations, all-wheel drive doesn't quite match pure four-wheel drive. To deal with this, many modern all-wheel drive systems have the capability to be locked into a pure, four-wheel drive mode, when the going gets really tough.

Which should you pick? For most people, most of the time, front-wheel drive, with its benefits of fuel economy, space efficiency and good traction in slippery conditions, is the best choice. For ultimate performance in decent weather, it's rear-wheel drive. For the serious off-roader or the tough work in really bad weather, it's four-wheel drive. And for the all-time, all-around, all-weather maximum traction, it's all-wheel drive. You have to decide what's best for the driving you do.

 

Many car buyers are confused by the matter of which wheels actually drive the vehicle, and which is best for their particular needs. There are four main...

...f-roader or the tough work in really bad weather, it's four-wheel drive. And for the all-time, all-around, all-weather maximum traction, it's all-wheel drive. You have to decide what's best for the driving you do.

Is this a joke?

 

Torque steer /thread

 

Torque steer

 

Yeah thought you had gone crazy and written a novel...

 

nice threadjack

 

Btw please name a FWD performance car. They don't exist. I mean something on par with an M3 or even a 335.


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There aren't any because no one will buy them. Just like idiot Americans won't buy diesels and/or wagons. If a company other than Porsche came out with a rear engine car we'd all laugh but seem to think the 911 is the best thing since sliced bread.

It doesn't matter anyway because you'll never use 75% of the performance an M3 or 335 will give you on the street. It's a lot more fun to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow.

 

In 5 years of owning bmw ' s I've only been stranded once bc my fuel pump went out. I've kept up with all my maintenance and have never had an issue really. You might call me a fan boy bc I've loved bmw ' s since I was a kid and saw my first m3 and will do what ever it takes to own one. I call it being an enthusiast. I don't run just bc I have an issue got to pay to play and I love playing.

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I love mine but it robs me regularly. It's an abusive relationship.


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