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P0015 "B" Camshaft Position - Timing Over Retarded

1.9K views 28 replies 5 participants last post by  Phoenix330ci  
#1 · (Edited)
2004 330Ci, automatic

So tonight I was just checking the status of the emmission monitors since I cleared all the codes last week after 4 o2 sensor replacement. Just prior to this I was getting a P0420 and the sensors were way past recommended changing (210K). So far the P0420 code has not come back yet, but I now have a pending P0015 code. One thing I have noticed lately and it seems rather random, is hard start. Sometimes it will crank over a lot and others it will be less and fire right up.

As far as vanos, I replaced those seals, the timing guides (one was actually broken but still functioned), the timing tensioner probably 2000 miles ago, along with the the VCG that had a slight weep. The vanos I did use the timing tool and line up the gear marks with the case since I had to pull the gears for the time chain guides. So yes locked the cams at TDC and followed that procedure. It ran good for all those miles. Actually even with the pending P0015 code it is still running good, just the starting issue you can tell cranks more.

I have not pulled the exhaust solenoid as this just happened tonight. I see no oil leaking from it or that area.

The oil level is between max and low and it is about due for an oil change but figured i would do it when I drop the pan.

I did read several threads, most were never fully completed to a definative outcome. Most seem to have the P0015 shortly after doing vanos seals between 30 and 100 miles.

Prior to all this I replaced the fuel regulator/filter (about time as maintenance item before doing the pump), the rubber hose from the filter to the hard line and also the fuel pump as I was getting a soft fail where it would randomly stall coming to a stop - that was a couple months ago now. Also found and replaced a major vaccum leak and then later a minor vaccum leak. I believe all the vaccum leaks are taken care of, but can always smoke it agin to be sure.

The only other thing currently leaking engine wise is the oil pan gasket, which I just got a new one, but waiting on some unrelated parts before I drop that pan, probably another week.
 
#2 ·
The vanos I did use the timing tool and line up the gear marks with the case since I had to pull the gears for the time chain guides. So yes locked the cams at TDC and followed that procedure. It ran good for all those miles. Actually even with the pending P0015 code it is still running good, just the starting issue you can tell cranks more.
Do you know how to verify the cam timing?
You should search and post the discription of the P0015 code so all of us don't have to do this for you.
 
#3 · (Edited)
This is what the code means -

So this is the tool I used.


Here are the directions I used to disassemble/reassemble as well as finding TDC of the cams, locking them in and lining up the arrows on the parts with the block, lining up the gear windows.....


I could post this word for word here but it would be super long (60/70 steps start to finish). Is this not the correct procedure if you have the tool?

I can always pull this back apart, order all new seals and gaskets and what not and try it again, but not sure why I would be able to go 2k before it would have a pending P0015 "B" Camshaft Position - Timing Over Retarded. One would think if I messed the timing up, them I would have immediate problems/codes?

Also found this thread for re-adjustment without the tool.
 
#4 ·
I wouldn't get overly concerned about a pending cam code-
that can simply be the result of one instance of the cam
moving after shutdown, then the DME not having control of it on restart
due to not having oil pressure yet.

Pending and shadow codes are useful for troubleshooting problems,
but in and of themselves, aren't yet actual problems...

t
 
#6 ·
The hard starting at times,
Could be vanos timing.
Do you know how to verify the cam timing?
remove the VC, hand turn the crank CW front vu 4 turns + until TDC compression with both cams #1 lobes facing each other 45*. Verify that the cams square ends are perfectly square to the head top surface, with 2 dots facing up.
 
#8 ·
The pending code went away by it self after a couple starts when I checked. I have a couple other repairs to do and I have ordered some new seals and gaskets and what not so I plan on going in there but it might be a while until I get back around to this. I checked my records and it wasn’t a few months but more like a year ago I was in there.
 
#9 ·
Ok I’m reviving this.
I now have a permanent
P0172 for system too rich bank 1
P0015 for “B” camshaft position - timing over retarded bank 1

and two pending codes for

P0171 system too lean bank 1 and
P0174 system too lean bank 2

so I’m not sure how I can have too rich and too lean at the same time.

so at a stop light I checked OBDFusion and found these at idle all after maybe a twenty minute drive under regular temp.
B1 STFT -7, B2 STFT -7, B1 LTFT 15.6, B2 LTFT 17.2

throttle 10.2
MAF 4.8 to 5.3 g/s

O2 B1S2 0.65 to 0.68
O2 B2S2 fluctuates between 0.15. To 0.68
O2 B1S1 and B2S2 both -0.0

the only thing new I heard new in the engine bay is it sounds like the Disa may have a low rattle at idle. Also from a stop under acceleration I hear a rattle but this sounds more metallic like say from the ICV. I had a code a long time ago for that during last fall but it went away on its own. Also had a code for low cat efficiency on bank two but after I changed the o2 sensors it has not come back.

I still need to smoke this, also test the fuel pressure readings and I have not pulled the Vanos yet. I redid the vanos a year ago.

the o2 sensors are all new. The fuel pump new a couple months ago and the fuel filter/regulator just right before that.

previous smoking I found a large vacuum leak at a plug cap on the top of the intake manifold and replaced that and oring and a leak at the jet pump but have repaired that but have a new part on hand.

im about ready to pull the trigger on a new DISA as I feel that is becoming noisy and when I do that I’ll clean the ICV as well.

Any other suggestions?

I’ll get logs if I need to in OBDFusion but I’ll have to look up what I need for those logs.
 
#15 ·
thanks. That's two votes towards the vanos.

I’m going to order some parts for that and rebuild it again. I was going to pull it tonight to look at it but I just got home about two hours ago and it is still hot and getting late. I won’t be able to work on it this weekend so it looks like the weekend after, but by then I should have all the parts again. Then I’ll check the timing and all the plates/ gears for alignment again as well.

if the pistons are stuck or gummed up, is there any other parts to order or would new seals be all I need and a good cleaning of the pistons.
 
#18 ·
Thanks for the tip and yes I have that in my order which should be here mid next week.
I really tried to anticipate every detail in pulling this apart. Nothing like being short some dumb part because you forgot to order or didn’t think of it. I’m crazy about that. I also try to think of other maintenance items to get while I have other stuff removed so I don’t have to keep removing the same parts over and over.
 
#21 ·
UPDATE

Timing - pulled the Valve cover and checked VANOS and the timing and everything was correct. Rebuilt the VANOS just for fun since I was in there and I had the part even though I did it a year ago just to eliminate things.

VANOS solenoids - unscrewed those and both intake and exhaust didn't make a sound nor did the pin pop out when shaking them. Sprayed them down with brake clean until they ran clean. Shaked them and they made noise and the pin moved freely. I also when ahead and applied power to each of them with my Power Probe, they checked for continuity and they pin activated when I applied power. I did this a few time each and they seemed to work flawless. I pulled the pistons and sprayed them down, which were rather clean, and sprayed out the bores.

Spark plugs - Pulled those and they all seemed to be burning the same at a light grey in color.

Fuel Pressure at the Rail - When turn the key to ignition, the pump primed up and the pressure was 40-42 psi, tried this a few times. Upon starting and short idle of the car the pressure went to 48 psi. After shut down, the pressure remained at 40 psi during fifteen minutes. I also let the car sit 4 to 5 hours and the pressure eventually fell to 30 psi, but isn't there a drain back at some point to the tank?

I am hearing a little rattle to the DISA, so I ordered a BMW one to rule that out and it is probably due for a replacement anyway (this is the second BMW one) but probably have 100K on this one. I'll probably order the G.A.S. upgrade kit as well and do that before I place it in there.

Smoke Test - I smoke tested the car after completion. Only one very small issue at the "F" connector to the intake tube, there was a little smoke coming out there, so I added a worm clamp to apply a little pressure and that stopped the leak. Didn't see any other leaks and I made sure smoke was through the system as I had the oil fill cap open until I saw smoke, closed it, and ran the test for about fifteen minutes.

I know I still; have two issues - leaking oil pan gasket and leaking power steering rack. I have all the parts for both but I'm going to need the car in a few hours so decided to hold off an that stuff for another weekend. My part truck blew a radiator hose from overfill to the block this morning so I need to go get that and put that on tomorrow morning. (somedays when it rains it pours)

Codes - I'll clear all the codes when I drop the car back down on the ground and see what comes up next. Other than this, not sure what to do or check next. I guess I can go ahead and run the three OBD Fusion logs and see what is up.
 
#23 ·
Well that was short lived. Almost like I didn’t even get a pending code, but went back to a p0171 lean bank one. Well stumped because not sure why getting that again as smoke test showed nothing. Well has to be something with the first three cylinders and not a part that affects the entire system.
 
#25 ·
Yes the fuel pressure, key on not started is 40-42. Held 40 psi over 15 minutes when shut off. After 4 to 5 hours it drops to 30.

pressure is 48 psi once you start the car.

I want to say the fuel filter was changed about a year ago and the pump a month or so afterward.

As for the MAF - original one with 211k on it.
I did a MAF log on here a couple months back ( I would have to look up my thread) but I can do a new one later tonight when I get home and post it.
 
#27 ·
Well……I guess good thing I bought that from FCP. Bought it November 2024. VDO.

The filter I bought in August the same year from them.

(Don’t know why I thought February of 2024)

Now I have to see how to get that warranted out, and of course it went up 40 dollars and backordered with no ETA.