This is the first time I've heard this.

 

A lot of stock 330's Dyno around 190-200RWHP. We will see what the 335 Dyno's when it comes out.

 

I was reading up on the 335i and they said the estimated HP of 300 is low and it actualy has 350 HP, i have heard before that BMW's estimated HP is usually undervalued. So my question is does anyone have the true HP for the 330ci's non ZHP. i cant find them on the web. I was wondering if all BMWs have about a 25% increase in HP from what is stated b/c it can run with a 280HP G35 coupe. thanks

Uh, 25%? That's not being conservative, that's ridiculous. I have seen stock 330Cis with manual transmission dyno at just over 200rwhp. So that either means, lower loss of HP through the drivetrain than expected, or higher numbers at the crank to begin with. If you believe the latter, that's only a 4% difference (235HP > 225HP), assuming 15% drivetrain loss.

Where exactly did you read that the 335i is closer to 350HP? Stock? I seriously doubt it...especially if the M3 is going to be around 400. That's too close. I do believe that with the Turbo, it could probably be relatively easy to get to 350, but it won't come out of the box like that IMHO.

Oh...and 2 cars with the same HP won't necessarily accelerate the same. There are numerous other factors including weight, wheel width/diameter, tires, gearing, etc. I'm not saying that High HP isn't a good thing, because it is, but don't be focused on just that if you want better acceleration.

 

Yeah I have the book in front of me that the dealership gives out about the new 3 series coup it has 300 Hp and does 0-60 in 5.3

 

i want a 335I

hopefully will be my next car

 

Yeah I have the book in front of me that the dealership gives out about the new 3 series coup it has 300 Hp and does 0-60 in 5.3

Yea, that sounds like the published numbers that I've heard. The 0-60 numbers have been known to be conservative, but also consider that these numbers are with manual transmissions, and are achieved with professional drivers. The automatic 335is on the other hands are just 2/10ths back and for acceleration, they require no skill whatsoever, so in the real world a step vs. manual drag race could be close depending on the manual driver's skillz.

 

can you put a blow off valve on an automatic?

335+BOV= :drool:

 

can you put a blow off valve on an automatic?

335+BOV= :drool:

you can, but you wouldn't hear it in between shifts. Unless you were in manual mode and let off the gas abruptly staying in the same gear or simply reving in neutral.:thumbsup:

 

thats wack.. if i get one imma def get a manual :thumbsup:

 

http://www.automobilemag.com/features/news/0609_2007_bmw_335i_dynamometer/

Here you go guys this is where it says the 300HP is understated.

The 2007 BMW 335i will be in showrooms next month, and is the first application of BMW***8217;s new twin-turbocharged 3.0-liter inline-six. This is a big deal because BMW has had only two short affairs with turbocharged gasoline production cars--the 2002 Turbo in the mid-70s, and the E23 745i in the early 80s--and neither was sold in the U.S. As the saying goes, third time***8217;s the charm.

BMW fit this new engine with two small-displacement turbochargers--instead of one larger unit--in an effort to reduce lag. And for the most part, it worked. Behind the wheel, you***8217;re vaguely aware that this engine doesn***8217;t have quite as crisp a throttle response as its normally-aspirated siblings do. But you don***8217;t care--you***8217;re too busy trying to hold on for dear life.

2007 BMW 335i Hood Up
This is one hell of a motor, pulling smoothly and strongly from idle all the way to its 7000-rpm fuel cutoff. There***8217;s no boost gauge, and since you barely hear the turbos spooling, it***8217;s easy to forget they***8217;re even there. Once you***8217;ve adjusted to the slight lag in power delivery following big, sudden throttle openings, all you notice is the sound of that silky in-line six.

BMW says that this engine makes 300 horsepower and 300 lb-ft of torque. We were so impressed with its power that we couldn***8217;t help wonder if that was a conservative rating. Wasting no time, I swiped the keys and drove to a local dyno shop to find out.

2007 BMW 335i Rear Badge
We used a DynoJet chassis dyno, which measures an engine***8217;s power output at a vehicle***8217;s rear wheels. Because of frictional driveline losses, this number is always lower--generally by fifteen to twenty percent--than the quoted power output from the manufacturer, which is measured at the engine itself.

Here***8217;s what we found:

The non-turbocharged 330i, rated by BMW at 255 hp and 220 lb-ft of torque, puts about 200 hp and 180 lb-ft to the rear wheels. That***8217;s roughly a twenty-percent loss. Since they have similar drivelines, you***8217;d expect the 335i to put down 235 hp and 250 lb-ft.

2007 BMW 335i Rear Corner Dyno
But it didn***8217;t. It put down a whole lot more: 275 hp and 300 lb-ft. A few quick taps on our trusty calculator shows that this engine is likely putting out closer to 350 hp and 360 lb-ft of torque.

Technical editor Don Sherman***8217;s ears perked up at all this number crunching. With all that power, he wondered, is the 335i faster than the outgoing 333-hp E46 M3? We waved goodbye to the shiny new coupe***8217;s rear tires, and sent him to find out.

Don coaxed the 335i to 60 mph in 5.1 seconds--only 0.3 seconds slower than the M3. The 335i covered the quarter-mile in 13.6 seconds @ 104 mph--again, only 0.2 seconds and 1 mph behind the M3.

2007 BMW 335i Rear View
So in an all-out drag race, the 335i comes close, but can***8217;t quite match the M3***8217;s blistering acceleration. Those numbers, though, only tell half the story. Have a look at the top-gear acceleration figures. In sixth gear, the M3 needs 14.7 seconds to get from 30 to 70 mph ***8211; but the 335i does it in only 12.5.

That, my friends, is the beauty of this engine. At full bore, it***8217;s as fast as an M3. But at moderate engine speeds, it***8217;s even faster. What a great way to keep us all interested until the next M3 comes along.

Test - M3 - 335i
0-60 - 4.8 - 5.1
0-100 - 11.5 - 12.7
0-110 - 14.5 - 15.6
0-120 - N/A - 18.6
0-140 - N/A - 28.2
1/4 mile - 13.4@105 - 13.6@104
peak g - 0.7 - 0.68
30-70 (6th) - 14.7 - 12.5
30-70 (3rd) - N/A - 6.5

70-0 - 162 - 150
Peak g - 1.12 - 1.12

Weight - 3480 - 3560
%F/R - 50.6/49.4 - 51.1/48.9
Redline - 8000 - 7000
Power - 333 - 300
Torque - 202 - 300

Tires 255/40 ZR-18 255/35 WR-18

 

Interesting...seems weird that they didn't bother to mention if it was automatic or manual for testing. I'm assuming manual, but they used the automatic's drivetrain loss percentage. Manuals don't lose 20%. 15% at worst. That would put crank number at 323HP which is 8% higher than stated. Assuming that the dyno numbers aren't all that accurate, and it could be lower. I never trust one source. Of course, everyone's always going to quote the best numbers, but I prefer to get an objective view of things.

Regardless - that bi-turbo is friggin sweet! If indeed it was an automatic putting down those numbers, it makes me regret putting in a S/C instead of waiting to get one of these bad boys. Who knows? Maybe I'll part out and do just that! Anyone want a supercharger?

 

My auto 330ci dynoed at 180 stock

 

very interesting, thanks for the post.
having been around on other forums for a minute, let me put this into perspective among some of the competitors:

nissan:
there are two engines in the G35 and 350Z: "revup" and the nonrevup.
by the current sae standard being used,
the nonrevup VQ is rated 275hp and the revup VQ is rated at 293hp.
generally, the nonrevup dynos 230-235hp while the revup dynos +10-15hp on that. due to differences in powerbands and variable timing, the revup responds slightly differently to modifications.

i expect the coming vq35hr to dyno about 260hp, based on recent patterns and ratings/announcements.

lexus:
the is350 tends to dyno around 260hp. that engine is rated at 306hp at the crank. this is in line with nissan's vq35 ratings.

bmw:
the m3 tends to dyno around 280-290whp. that's for an engine rated at about 333hp.


all in all, to beat an m3, it will take horsepower under the curve. torque is a derivative (and indeed if you have one you can calculate the other), but in racing, horsepower is what matters. in every day driving, torque will get you along when you dont feel like downshifting (as the test data above indicates) and will give you that easy solid grunt off the line. horsepower is needed to win races however. this is how 350Zs can come off the line against a M3 so well, despite such a power deficit. out on the open road though, the m3 pulls hard on them- because of the greater horsepower in its power curve.

having said all of this, that data on the new 335i engine is impressive. 300lbft on the ground is a lot (in this class). 275whp is definitely not bad. both numbers are likely class leading. id bet that quite often the new 335i will feel faster than the e46 m3. indeed, 10whp can go unnoticed in many races where drivers skill can overcome that. the big question though is in engine strength and aftermarket support however. on paper the new 335 has all the ingredients. for tuning enthusiasts though, itll all depend on how well bmw built this engine...

 

Interesting...seems weird that they didn't bother to mention if it was automatic or manual for testing. I'm assuming manual, but they used the automatic's drivetrain loss percentage.

Here's a bit more info on the automatic 335i...

http://www.leftlanenews.com/2006/08/11/real-world-bmw-335i-0-60-14-mile-times/

Apparently it's a little faster than the manual...

 

i say 335 runs a 0-60 of 5 flat

 

So what im confused about how can the article say the dyno reads 275 hp but then he calculates it and it says 350HP? how does that work.

 

I've heard the 335 will be faster than the M cause the turbos are sequential. A few weeks ago i was at the bmw performance driving school and I was talking to one of the instructors whos friend has driven one. He said the peak torque hits at 1500rpm and pulls all the way through the red. Just thought I'd chime that in.

 

So what im confused about how can the article say the dyno reads 275 hp but then he calculates it and it says 350HP? how does that work.

You take the RWHP measure at the dyno and divide by the percentage that is applied to the wheels. For example, if a manual loses 15% through the drivetrain, then you take the RWHP and divide by 85% (100-15). That would then be 275 divided by .85 = 324HP. The magazine used 20%, so their calculation was 275 divided by .80 = 344HP. This is the HP at the CRANK, which is what manufacturers will state and most people will talk about.

I've heard the 335 will be faster than the M cause the turbos are sequential.

Regardless of the technology, they can't make the non-M faster than the ///M, if just for the marketing aspects of it. If the 335 is this fast, than the M3 should be blisteringly fast :thumbsup: .

 

You take the RWHP measure at the dyno and divide by the percentage that is applied to the wheels. For example, if a manual loses 15% through the drivetrain, then you take the RWHP and divide by 85% (100-15). That would then be 275 divided by .85 = 324HP. The magazine used 20%, so their calculation was 275 divided by .80 = 344HP. This is the HP at the CRANK, which is what manufacturers will state and most people will talk about.



Regardless of the technology, they can't make the non-M faster than the ///M, if just for the marketing aspects of it. If the 335 is this fast, than the M3 should be blisteringly fast :thumbsup: .

agreed.. whats the point in the M car when a nonM is faster

 

i have a feeling that slightly modded 335's are going to be just as fast (if not faster) as the next gen m3. we know the V8 m3 will make around 400 horses, but knowing M engines, we'll be lucky if it even makes 300 torque. so, a chipped 335 will have slightly less hp but a lot more torque than the next m3. should be a great race.

 

^ would be interesting to see how that turns out!

 

You take the RWHP measure at the dyno and divide by the percentage that is applied to the wheels. For example, if a manual loses 15% through the drivetrain, then you take the RWHP and divide by 85% (100-15). That would then be 275 divided by .85 = 324HP. The magazine used 20%, so their calculation was 275 divided by .80 = 344HP. This is the HP at the CRANK, which is what manufacturers will state and most people will talk about.



Regardless of the technology, they can't make the non-M faster than the ///M, if just for the marketing aspects of it. If the 335 is this fast, than the M3 should be blisteringly fast :thumbsup: .

I'm talkin about the E46 M3, I doubt it will be as fast or faster than the newer M with the V8. However, With the 335 getting peak torque so soon, it will be interesting to see how it lines up with the new M

-Mike

 

Stock e46 M's dyno around 275whp... so if their dyno is accurate, then the 335i is a bit underrated...