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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So my 2006 E46 330cic has the CEL come on.

What now??

P0411, great SAP issue.

Its January and cold and I am lazy.

Pop hood, check all SAP hoses - fine, no issues.

Pop center hose on air pump and can spin pump with finger - pump is not tight or frozen, no prior noise from pump.

Start car cold with hood open and listen for pump to run, put my hand on it to feel it run, it only runs for about 5 seconds - BAD.

So pump runs, but not long enough, could be wiring or relay, but it is January, cold out, I am busy and lazy.

So I order from BMA Parts the MAF for the SAP system, the next day on my doorstep is the BMW Parts order.

1 screw, 1 wiring connector, 1 squeeze clamp and 1 hose clamp and 10 minutes later problem solved.

I love it when a plan comes together, no more P0411.

Being lazy and taking the easy way out - Priceless!

Too bad all E46 issues can't be this quick and simple.
 

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Wow..awesome post. I never knew the later model e46 has its own MAF for the SAP

sent from my HTC EVO+ using Bimmer App
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I think sometime between 2003-2004 the 330 changed from the vacuum controlled combi valve to this MAF based SAP.

The only issue is vacuum hose is far cheaper than the SAP MAF!

BUT the SAP MAF does not cause vacuum leaks, cold start issues and is easier to replace than the vacuum hose!

The SAP MAF was $70. I did not even bother to try and clean it, the large cylinder at the input of the MAF sensor is actually a large diameter cartridge filter. I could not really tell if it was dirty, it may be something I may try to find in a parts diagram and possibly replace in the future, but I would be surprised if this filter could not possibly last 10 years or more for amount the SAP pump actually runs.

I need to go back and check on the run time on the MAF based SAP system, but I do not think it runs on a fixed 90 second timer?? I think it may run for up to 90 seconds depending on how quickly the O2 sensors warm up?

We have had very warm weather here for the past 4-5 days, up close to 60F.

Next week will be a different story on the temps!
 

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Nice, quick & simple..
Couldn't ask for more!
Thanks for the posting the info and solution.

I have the old vacuum controlled SAP, but if I ever encounter this error in the future on other bimmers, I'll know where to look first.
Much appreciated
 

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I have a 2003 330i and I can't find the problem.. I plug the maf sensor and the car runs rough or turns off. I unplug it and the car runs good. I metered the maf harness and one had 15 volts dc and the other two didn't have any voltage. Can anyone help me with this?
 

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I have a 2003 330i and I can't find the problem.. I plug the maf sensor and the car runs rough or turns off. I unplug it and the car runs good. I metered the maf harness and one had 15 volts dc and the other two didn't have any voltage. Can anyone help me with this?
I think you unplugged the wrong MAF. Let me guess, the one you unplugged is on the left side of the car in line behind the air box. The one being talked about above is on the right hand side of the car over where the exhaust header comes out. See the picture above. It is a tiny MAF.
 

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I have a question on terminology...

http://www.obd-codes.com/p0411


In this link, they use an abbreviation I am not familiar with. They introduce the term AIR without defining it. They describe the a function of the powertrain control module, then give the abbreviation as PCM, then later they just say PCM and we know what they are talking about. We (I) often say, "secondary air pump (SAP)," and then use SAP through the remainder of the discussion.

In the link above, they introduce AIR, but do not define what it means, and they make several references to the AIR system. What is the AIR system?
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
The article was likely written by someone familiar/trained by GM/GMC?

GM calls the DME the PCM or Powertrain Control Module as they usually control both the engine and transmission with a single module. ECM/ECU is a more generic nomenclature, however, GM used the term ECM prior to computer controlled transmissions.

AIR appears to be a GM term/acronym. Air Injection R(??) no idea if the R really has a meaning. I am sure someone can search around and determine the "official" background and meaning of the AIR system.

Everything on the Internet has to be taken with a grain of salt, many manufacturers have different names/acronyms/definitions for the same parts/models that other manufacturers have.

So a DME is to BMW as a PCM is to the GM world. But in the GM world the PCM also controls the automatic transmission where BMW has a TCM or Transmission Control Module that is connected to the CAN bus and communicates with the DME and other things like ABS and Traction Control/Stability systems.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
how much being lazy cost? :p
Likely $65?

Had to replace the SAP MAF anyway, I just did not want to waste a lot of time troubleshooting possible electrical issue in January in the sub freezing weather, so I took a gamble and purchased the SAP MAF and that was what the problem was anyway!

Have not see the P0411 since the SAP MAF was replaced!
 

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The article was likely written by someone familiar/trained by GM/GMC?

GM calls the DME the PCM or Powertrain Control Module as they usually control both the engine and transmission with a single module. ECM/ECU is a more generic nomenclature, however, GM used the term ECM prior to computer controlled transmissions.

AIR appears to be a GM term/acronym. Air Injection R(??) no idea if the R really has a meaning. I am sure someone can search around and determine the "official" background and meaning of the AIR system.

Everything on the Internet has to be taken with a grain of salt, many manufacturers have different names/acronyms/definitions for the same parts/models that other manufacturers have.

So a DME is to BMW as a PCM is to the GM world. But in the GM world the PCM also controls the automatic transmission where BMW has a TCM or Transmission Control Module that is connected to the CAN bus and communicates with the DME and other things like ABS and Traction Control/Stability systems.
Could not believe R stands for Reactor and did more search why reactor?

air-injection reactor [***8242;er in¦jek·sh***601;n r***275;***8242;ak·t***601;r]
(mechanical engineering)
A unit installed in an automotive engine which mixes fresh air with hot exhaust gases in the exhaust manifold to react with any gasoline that has escaped unburned from the cylinders. Abbreviated AIR.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Could not believe R stands for Reactor and did more search why reactor?
I knew there was a TLA (Three Letter Acronym) behind this, I spend a few moments looking into it, but came up empty handed .

I do not have any newer GM material on hand here but after spending a lot of time around them I knew there was some form of TLA we were dealing with!

BTW, FLA is a TLA for Four Letter Acronym!
 

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Speaking of this issue, my 2004 model also has the secondary MAF. I was getting the SAP system failure code for a while now and tried everything from replacing the parts to untraditional SeaFoam treatment and nothing worked.
The issue:
The SAP turns on for 5 sec at the cold start as normal, the secondary air injection valve opens up as normal, but then the pump shuts off and valve closes and that is as far as the system works.
I got brand new: Secondary injection valve, hoses and SAP MAF.
The only old part of this system is the SAP, but I am confident it works because it spinns like a jet at the cold start.
Now I also started getting Lean and Ritch codes with the SAP codes together.
This issue drives me insane, what in the world is wrong. I will try to disconnect the battery for 10 mins this weekend to see if the codes just were not cleared yet since I just replaced the SAP MAF 2 days ago.
 

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Did you replace the check valve located on the exhaust manifold? I just had this issue in my wife's X3 with the same engine and that's what it turned out to be.

Also, have you cleared the code for the SAP? If not, it will only run a few seconds before shutting down.
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=898977&highlight=
Yes, I was trying to reboot the ECU by unplugging the negative terminal on the battery but it didn't work. As soon as I started the engine, the service engine light soon was right where it was and the sup pump did what it did before run like a crazy jet for five seconds and then shut off. How do I clear the codes?

Also another thing is that before I had the issues I never heard the sup pum running like that. Now that I have the p0411 code it runs at the cold start like a jet so loud. Is it even normal or it runs like that because it is out of control ?
 
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