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Discussion Starter #1
New to the forums. Been looking for a car. Was made aware of one that looks promising.

2002 M3 Convertible. One owner. 69,000 miles. Manual trans. Garage kept. Not even one scratch. Drivers seat has a little wear on the left bolster, but everything inside almost perfect. Top looks new (but original). Went through the owners manual and checked every system on the car, everything works.

ALL the original sales docs and ALL the service records for the car since day one are with the car. Had the rod bearings done at 22,000. Had coilovers installed and control arm bushing replaced in 2010 at 57,000. Had the Vanos rebuilt and solenoid replaced at 60,000 in 2010. New Hakook Ventus V12 EVO tires at 64,000 miles in 2011. Diff serviced recently, including replacing fluid and all bushings and mounts. All belts and pulleys/tensioners replaced and new battery this month. All under-car-covers there. Some evidence of oil leaks in the past, but service records show valve cover gaskets and oil filter gaskets replaced multiple times and recently, so no real concern there. Inspected dampers, no oil showing.

Sounds almost too good to be true?

You will note the car only has 11,000 miles on it since 2010, and only 4,000 miles on it since 2011. Car has sat a lot. In the past three years the owner has had it serviced and a new battery installed three times. This last time the car sat, without ever being started, for 14 months.

Car starts right up. Idle is steady. It has a slight hesitation when you open the throttle, but only noticeable if in neutral. Pulls away steady with no hesitation when driving.

Here's the problem:

Owner has not tagged the car since '17, it has no insurance, and he won't let me drive it off the lot where it's stored (the service center that has done all the work since 2010). He want's to sell it "as is". Owner is a reputable doctor. I doubt this is a money issue, probably just want's to remove a "hassle"?

If I pay the (very competent and fully teched-up) repair center to do a PPI, but can't drive the car off the lot, should I risk a purchase?

If the car has no problems, what is a reasonable price?

THANKS!!
 

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If I can’t test drive the car, I’d probably walk away from it. Isn’t it the reason we buy cars for is to drive it... just my .02 worth.


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Here's the problem:

Owner has not tagged the car since '17, it has no insurance, and he won't let me drive it off the lot where it's stored (the service center that has done all the work since 2010).
No Test Drive = No Buy.
 

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He can buy insurance online through any number of insurers, let you drive it (put a "tag applied for " sign in the back window) and he can cancel the insurance immediately afterwards, most likely for a full refund or at worst some minor cost for the day.

His unwillingness to accommodate a test drive suggests he is either dishonest or will be a nightmare to negotiate a transaction with, never mind deal with you honorably if heaven forbid any issues come up.

Proof yet again that smart people like this doctor don't necessarily think logically.

Good luck.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Thanks guys.

I honestly think this guy just doesn't want to hassle with it. The shop said he is that way.

He has given me a price, and said it is non-negotiable.

So, I will repeat the questions again:

If the shop gives me a "clean bill of health" after a PPI, should I buy it?

And, if we knew this car was mechanically sound, what would it sell for?

One owner. Low miles. Excellent condition. All the purchase and service records. All the "major" repair items already done.
 

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If the shop gives me a "clean bill of health" after a PPI, should I buy it?
So my next thought is that the shop should have insurance that covers them for test drives on customer vehicles. Why not ask if the shop owner can take you for a spin? As for having no tags, the odds of being pulled over on a test drive are extremely slim and even if that happened, it's unlikely the LEO would issue you a citation, unless they are just being a dick.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
So my next thought is that the shop should have insurance that covers them for test drives on customer vehicles. Why not ask if the shop owner can take you for a spin? As for having no tags, the odds of being pulled over on a test drive are extremely slim and even if that happened, it's unlikely the LEO would issue you a citation, unless they are just being a dick.
I'm hopeful that when I hire the service center to do the PPI that they will drive it. If they plan to drive it then I'll ask if I can ride along.

VALUE

Hagarty Evaluations gives this car a $33,000 value (as "excellent" condition). That sounds high to me (although I hope they are right!). If it's "good" condition they say it's worth $19,000. This guy want's $14,900 "as is". What do you guys think this exceptionally good shape car is worth, if it has no problems?
 

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No drive, no buy! Don't fall in love, be prepared to walk away!

Or...

Tell him to have it brought to a BMW dealer for a top to bottom inspection, certification... And that you'll negotiate anything they suggest being done. The dealer has insurance and can drive it, check it out. For the price of a tow, and check out, I would maybe, MAYBE buy it.

Having the place where is has sat, certify it, is not ok. And if it's too much trouble for the owner, a doctor, who should be fairly intelligent and can surmise that as a reasonable request (inspection), then walk away because too much trouble for him means he just wants to unload his troubles on someone else! There's a sucka born every minute.

Let's look honestly at a few things... That the car has low miles for almost a decade. Garage or no, rubber dries out, plastic becomes brittle, oil degrades, fluids evaporate, etc , etc. I guarantee you'll be replacing the top within a year, along with cooling system overhaul, suspension rubber bushings, possibly engine/trans mounts aside from regular normal maintenance such as plugs, belts, hoses, filters, coolant flush, power steering flush, brake bleed, O2 sensors... Lol. Coilovers... Hmmmm, little bit of a telltale sign maybe the car was driven a bit aggressively, as they should, but track maybe? What about oil analysis...? Is owner ok with that prior to purchase?

Long and short of it... If it appears too good to be true...
It usually is!

Good Luck with your decision...
 

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Discussion Starter #11
So Cooolone are you saying that a BMW dealer can provide some sort of certificate inspection? Not that it matters, the doc has made it clear; "No drive, as is, no negotiation on the price." But I would like to know it's available.

He installed the coilovers to lower the car. Both he and the shop (who don't particularly like this guy) say he's never tracked it.

The service records indicate that the last three times the car was brought in it was because it had been sitting. 2017/18/now. In all three they did inspections on all fluid levels, oil change, battery replacement. The one in 2018 shows a brake pressure sensor replacement with system flush and bleed and diff fluid replacement. The latest one replaced all the pulley's and belts.

If I didn't have all the service records on this car I would walk away, no problem. But it's had SO much already maintained/repaired/replaced that I'm still interested, IF I can have it driven.

My only hope is that the service center where it is can drive it when I hire them for a PPI. This place has been in business here for 30+ years. They work on mostly Porsche race cars (very nice Porsche race cars like 935's) but there are currently three Ferrari's there, too.
 

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no drive, no buy. That guy is being unreasonable.

If you want to roll the dice and buy it, that's on you if something ends up being majorly wrong. A PPI inspection can only reveal so much without an extensive drive.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
no drive, no buy. That guy is being unreasonable.

If you want to roll the dice and buy it, that's on you if something ends up being majorly wrong. A PPI inspection can only reveal so much without an extensive drive.
Yea, I've decided that if the service center can't drive the car on a fairly significant drive (20+ miles, including interstate) I'm going to pass.

Maybe when I don't buy he'll come around. But not willing to risk it.

Still would be interested to see what people think this year/model car would be worth, if mechanically it's as good as it is cosmetically. I'm seeing mid-$30,000 to mid teens...........
 

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I think 15k on the high end. There is no way a vert is ever worth 30k, that's funny talk. My 50k mi 05 m3 coupe that's cherry isnt work 30k.

I think you made a smart move. I have a feeling he'll come back around if you walk away.
 

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Hey op do you have car insurance? My insurance covers me for any car I drive. Maybe you can get something like that for a test drive. Or even put insurance on it for 1 day
 

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New to the forums. Been looking for a car. Was made aware of one that looks promising.

2002 M3 Convertible. One owner. 69,000 miles. Manual trans. Garage kept. Not even one scratch. Drivers seat has a little wear on the left bolster, but everything inside almost perfect. Top looks new (but original). Went through the owners manual and checked every system on the car, everything works.

ALL the original sales docs and ALL the service records fo xender discord omegler the car since day one are with the car. Had the rod bearings done at 22,000. Had coilovers installed and control arm bushing replaced in 2010 at 57,000. Had the Vanos rebuilt and solenoid replaced at 60,000 in 2010. New Hakook Ventus V12 EVO tires at 64,000 miles in 2011. Diff serviced recently, including replacing fluid and all bushings and mounts. All belts and pulleys/tensioners replaced and new battery this month. All under-car-covers there. Some evidence of oil leaks in the past, but service records show valve cover gaskets and oil filter gaskets replaced multiple times and recently, so no real concern there. Inspected dampers, no oil showing.

Sounds almost too good to be true?

You will note the car only has 11,000 miles on it since 2010, and only 4,000 miles on it since 2011. Car has sat a lot. In the past three years the owner has had it serviced and a new battery installed three times. This last time the car sat, without ever being started, for 14 months.

Car starts right up. Idle is steady. It has a slight hesitation when you open the throttle, but only noticeable if in neutral. Pulls away steady with no hesitation when driving.

Here's the problem:

Owner has not tagged the car since '17, it has no insurance, and he won't let me drive it off the lot where it's stored (the service center that has done all the work since 2010). He want's to sell it "as is". Owner is a reputable doctor. I doubt this is a money issue, probably just want's to remove a "hassle"?

If I pay the (very competent and fully teched-up) repair center to do a PPI, but can't drive the car off the lot, should I risk a purchase?

If the car has no problems, what is a reasonable price?

THANKS!!
no drive, no buy. That guy is being unreasonable.
 

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I've bought project cars (even running/driving ones) that I did not test drive nor have a PPI done on. Then again I expected to tear them down completely. It's all in what you think it's worth and what you can afford to have to fix if there is something that is wrong with it. I did test drive my 330Ci, but did not have a PPI done. I knew going in that the transmission had issues and approximately what it would cost to fix. That was figured into the purchase price. Yes, there was a slight gamble involved, but I was willing to take it. Now, five years later I do not regret the purchase and have spent less than most on maintenance for a car that has gone from 92,000 miles to 116,000. I have a few things that I have been putting off, but I'll probably address them after I get my Barracuda running.
 

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ALL the original sales docs and ALL the service records for the car since day one are with the auto clicker word unscrambler jumble solver car. Had the rod bearings done at 22,000. Had coilovers installed and control arm bushing replaced in 2010 at 57,000. Had the Vanos rebuilt and solenoid replaced at 60,000 in 2010. New Hakook Ventus V12 EVO tires at 64,000 miles in 2011. Diff serviced recently, including replacing fluid and all bushings and mounts. All belts and pulleys/tensioners replaced and new battery this month. All under-car-covers there. Some evidence of oil leaks in the past, but service records show valve cover gaskets and oil filter gaskets replaced multiple times and recently, so no real concern there. Inspected dampers, no oil showing.
 

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ALL the original sales docs and ALL the service records for the car since day one are with the auto clicker car. Had the rod bearings done at 22,000? Had coil overs installed and control arm bushing replaced in 2010 at 57,000. Had the Vanos rebuilt and solenoid replaced at 60,000 in 2010. New Hankook Ventus V12 EVO tires at 64,000 miles in 2011. Diff serviced recently, including replacing fluid and all bushings and mounts. All belts and pulleys/tensioners replaced and new battery this month. All under-car-covers there. Some evidence of oil leaks in the past, but service records show valve cover gaskets and oil filter gaskets replaced multiple times and recently, so no real concern there. Inspected dampers, no oil showing.
 
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