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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
GROUP BUY AT: http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?p=9935236#post9935236
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UPDATE 5/8/09!!! PICTURES AND ALL
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Hey Guys,

I told myself that I would wait but I'm just so excited I couldn't help myself. I just wanted to review a new mod I am getting. It's a completely removable, bolt in roll bar for our cars. I started a post about it over on M3forum (http://m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=261392) but thought I should share with my new community too, after all I know not all of you are members on M3forum.

*Pictures Below*

So this bar is very unique. There is not much like it on the market; the only real alternative would be the Raven Roll Bar. I don't know if you guys are at all familiar with the Raven Bar yet, but it's pretty cool (http://m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=254359&highlight=raven). There are however a couple of draw backs. My biggest concern about the Raven bar, is that it doesn't sit flush with the floor.
See Pic:

In fact it doesn't touch the floor at all. The Raven bar only connects to the front seat belt anchor and then has a plate that rests on the carpet. In a roll over situation I feel that the downward force on the main hoop could be enough to shear the bolts right off. I don't think the bar is un-safe; I think that the Raven bar will still protect a driver better than if there was nothing. The beauty of this new Roll Bar is that it removes this problem by connecting the main hoop to pre-existing mounting points on the floor of the car, and then strengthens that point by further by tying it into one of the strongest areas on the car, the underside stress bar. The second problem with the Raven Bar is its inability to be shipped; the only way to get a Raven bar is drive to the shop that manufactures them, in Canada. Because of the design of this new bar, it will be able to be shipped much more easily.

I was asked by the shop to keep their name quite until the bar is completed and installed, but if you are very interested and serious shoot me a PM.

To get very Technical:
The bar will be made from Chrome Moly tubing, 1.5" x 0.095, so it will be lightweight and very strong. There are three different parts to the setup, all which can be ordered individually. First there is the rear shock tower mount, which has the tabs for connecting to the bolt in roll bar. "You can see in these pictures how the shock tower brace mount curves to match the curvature of the shock tower to provide the close fit. They also shows how the shock tower brace clevis pins connect to the shock tower; the close tolerance basically produces a solid attachment to the shock tower. The clevis pin is also not just butt welded...it fits inside the tube up to 3", providing a near solid tube or bar at the end of any of the tubes. Again, also to be clear, while we "mocked" up the prototype by using a std upper shock mount, and then built the piece around it, the final piece will be a one piece, laser cut piece of material, not welded at all. And again, this is designed such that any customer could use their existing RSMs as well as this, to sandwich together...in this manner, we can work from stock to whatever they have already installed."
Pictures:




The rear shock tower brace uses the existing OEM shock mount holes and a plate where the RSM supports normally mount, but in addition there is additional upper and side support plates (shown in the pictures below). This also ensures proper attachment and tensional rigidity. Of course you can still use OEM or after market RSMs if desired. You can also run a full coil-over set all the way around, including full and true coil-overs on the rear. The support around the shock tower area, combined with the standard RSM will provide sufficient reinforcement that true coil-overs could be run on the rear.

Second we have the main hoop with down bars to the rear shock tower brace,
Then finally there is the main hoop with down bars and X-brace to the rear shock tower brace. The whole system is bolt in: The down tubes and the other option of the down tubes and the X-brace can be easily removed and added with just four bolts. You will be about to start with just the down tubes if you want and can upgrade to the down tube/X-brace version at any time. I have attached some pictures but remember, these are prototype pieces, so not they are not "pretty". This shows the size of the base plate, and where the hole is for the "bolt thru" the body utilizing an existing body hole on the E46 M3. "There are several key elements to this picture. You can see by the orientation of the main hoop bar to the plate how far to the outside of the car we have the main hoop, this is to get the tolerance as tight as possible on the main hoop, and also out of the way for normal car use. Next, you can see from the size of the current base plate that we are providing a lot of coverage to disperse the energy if needed. Next....the tube is triangulated to provide for-aft support to the main hoop...while the down bars providing the main back support...and the down bars also providing forward retention, but the security of the dual attachment of the base ensures that it does not move and, by tying into the existing side frame rail that the seat belt mount is secured to, we use another factory attachment, and one of the strongest points possible. The trick part of this attachment is how we "sandwich" the plate underneath...The bolt from the top plate goes thru the body to an underside plate, to sandwich the body and make this extremely strong, that plate also has another underside attachment point which is the underbody stress bar outer attachment point...so, again, a natural factory place that has been reinforced and is extremely strong. This thing is bullet proof."





Again, there is absolutely no drilling or fabrication needed for any of the mounting or installation (of course you can weld the mounts in if you choose, but it is not necessary).

The down tubes and X-brace connect to the main hoop and the shock tower brace via large welded clevis receivers, and do not require removal of the rear seats, just that they be lowered into the down position. All connection are full welded clevis pins, and tabs... NOT heim-joint style***8230; the actual surface area of the tab weld is greater than the seam of the tubing if it had been welded directly, plus is welded in the direction of energy transference. There is no flex in the connection points at all....it's the same as welding in a joint in a tubular suspension arm. Plus, care needs to be applied in understanding the direction of energy transference....no need to provide extra weight and material if not needed. The two primary points of flex are vertical in the main hoop, which is supported in the vertical plane by the larger foot plate, and which is attached in two lateral directions, not just as an attachment. The also prevents tensional distortion under body flex. The horizontal or angular thrust is transferred to the cross brace and down tubes, which are mounted close to the rear shock towers, to allow the short moment arm from the connection point to the shock tower, allowing the body to be the point of strength.




As you can tell this was defiantly designed by an engineer and people who know what the hell they are doing:

There are number of people designing the bar (as asked I will conceal identities until the bar is complete and installed). The first of which is the shop owner, he has his degree in engineering plus an MBA, has been racing cars for years, and is an instructor. He defiantly knows exactly what he is doing. The other guy is a very professional craftsman who has had "experience building cars that have competed in the SCCA Speed Vision World Challenge, Formula Drift professional series, US Drift series, Nopi Drift series, San Jose Grand Prix, and other club racing venues. He has been published in major magazines in the US, Europe, Australia, and Japan. He is also a top notch fabricator, and can create anything from a full SCCA-spec roll cage and chassis modifications to simple exhaust work. His welding abilities are strong, as he can weld titanium, stainless steel, aluminum, mild steel, and cast iron." (This was taken from the shops web site)

"The key theme for [the shop] when it decided to develop its own both in roll bar solutions for the E46 M3 - No compromises....most bolt in roll bars offer many compromises when compared to full weld in cage designs, so the full benefit is not achieved. You either get the benefit of having a bolt in roll bar, and lose on the ability to still use the car as a full daily driver, and you also don't get the full safety and torsional rigidity of a proper cage design. [the shop] set out to do all of that - gain the benefits of a bolt in cage, deliver full safety with properly designed supports and triangulation, tie into key structural elements, and not duplicate or be redundant in similar components (shock tower braces). We wanted the bolt in roll bar to be just that, but also that portions could be removed quickly so that the car could provide the full daily drive aspects, without compromises to even the back seat occupants."

Okay so that was very long winded. But it basically summarizes all the pages of info from the M3forum thread. As I said before, this seems to be the premier solution for people like me who can't install a permanent solution.

-Colin

*I am not affiliated with the company who is producing this in any other way then a very satisfied customer. I will see no profits from the sales of this roll bar. I am just a very excited guy, trying to spread the excitement! If I have violated any rules please PM me immediately and I will fix any problems. Again this is not a sales pitch, just trying to get my opinion and all the info all out in one post.
 

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yes, I have been watching this cage go through all of the stages and looks amazing and comes in and out very easily.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I would... but I can't :( I don't have it yet
 

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can it be painted? I wouldnt like the look of the chrome in my car
 

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Discussion Starter #7
can it be painted? I wouldnt like the look of the chrome in my car
Yes, the standard colors will be white and black, but you can also get it powder coated in other colors too... I'm getting mine Interlagos blue to match my exterior paint :)
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Alright guys,

So I posted the same thing on M3forums… and I’m too lazy to write something different, so I copy and pasted the bellow:
Here are the finished pictures of the prototype roll bar. In these pictures the harness bar is not installed... you can kind of see where the tabs are though, in some of the pictures. Once mine starts being made and installed I’ll get more pictures of the different stages. I’m sure Mikymu will have some good stuff coming too.

So the only modification that will be semi-permanent will be a small cut in the very edge of you carpet… very minor and un-noticeable if the bar is on installed; better then a bunch of holes.

Pictures here:
Outside side view:


Rear outside View:


Main hoop mounting Point:




Rear main connecting points:



Strut bar- rear inside view:



Sandwich-re-enforcement underside point:


Main Hoop:




Full view:



I’m super excited for mine… More pictures will come as that happens… also stay tuned for pricing and a possible group buy!!!

-Colin
 

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Discussion Starter #8
More...






 

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Discussion Starter #10
hahaha no that is not my car.
 

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so it's removable, but how long does it take :p
 

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Discussion Starter #12
I'm not sure... shouldn't be too bad... I'll let you know when I get mine.
 

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Discussion Starter #13

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Discussion Starter #15
So two new developments...

They are increasing the size of the base plate on the underside, as well as increasing the height of the main hoop
 

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man, I need one of these for my S4. i'm eyeing a half cage right now, but would be much sweeter
 
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