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Discussion Starter #1
So after somewhat extensive (relative term) research I ended up with Turner Brake kit and got them installed yesterday. The kit included Axxis Ultimate brake pads, OEM Stock rotors by Zimmerman, blue fluid and sensors all for $480 shipped. I was under the impression that the OEM rotors are by Brembo, am I wrong? I am not sure why I got Zimmermans instead…..how do they compare to Brembo in OEM stocks?

I was also under the impression that these Ultimate brake pads were better than OEMs? But boy was I given wrong info. These Ultimates don’t even have half as good a grip as my old worn out OEM pads (even after the light was on). Am I missing something? I mean, do I need to wait a while before making any judgment?

Then I ran into the calipers rubbing against my wheels with these ultimate pads. I have a staggered setup of Beyern Mesh 18X8.5/9.5, ET 40/45 with Nitto Invo 225/40/18 and 255/35/18 tires. Are these pads too thick for my wheels or the wheels are the issue? If that's the case then why didn't they rub with my oem brake pads? The shop had to grind my caliper down so they don’t rub......is that an acceptable fix or will it cause issues later?

Man after this horrible experience, do I wish I went with OEM set, even if it was $120 more…….sigh!!:ben:

Now the last issue is my brake sensor light is not gone. I tried resetting the light by turning the key in POS 2 and then leaving it there for 2 mins but it is still there…..what else can I do to get rid of that damn light?
 

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Zimmerman is a quality German manufacturer of rotors. I've used them on other cars for years, and wouldn't hesitate to use them on my 325i. Wouldn't worry about that.

Don't judge the out-the-door performance of your brakes just yet. With new pads and rotors, you need to allow time for the pad and rotor to bond with each other. You can speed that process up through multiple brake/speed up/brake/speed up/etc cycles (search for articles on proper way) or let it happen naturally over ~125+ miles. Recently, someone posted about some Performance Friction pads that they didn't care for, then they went out and bedded the pads and rotor, and found they were significantly better after that. Again that will happen naturally with some mileage, if you don't want to force it.

Chances are you put your wheels on with partially worn brake pads, and the new brake pads, being new, caused the caliper to rub? Some pads may vary by a mm or two, but they are usually fairly consistent. That sounds like a wheel fitment issue. Easiest way to solution that is to put a thin spacer on. I'd have to see where and how much the calipers were ground down for clearance, however, that would not be my first choice as a fix.
 

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Did you bed the pads in properly? If you just had all this installed and drove away without bedding them in, I'm not surprised they suck. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
Don't judge the out-the-door performance of your brakes just yet. With new pads and rotors, you need to allow time for the pad and rotor to bond with each other. You can speed that process up through multiple brake/speed up/brake/speed up/etc cycles (search for articles on proper way) or let it happen naturally over ~125+ miles.
I doubt if the Axxis Ultimates will have the same initial bite as the oem. The peace of mind or the bragging right I had on my bimmer's stopping ability is now gone.

Chances are you put your wheels on with partially worn brake pads, and the new brake pads, being new, caused the caliper to rub? Some pads may vary by a mm or two, but they are usually fairly consistent. That sounds like a wheel fitment issue. Easiest way to solution that is to put a thin spacer on. I'd have to see where and how much the calipers were ground down for clearance, however, that would not be my first choice as a fix.
You are right, I had them on worn our pads. As far as using spacers, I read it on seveal forums to stay out of them.
 

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I have similar setup:
Zimmerman front/rear disks, SS stoptech lines, Motul RBF600, Axxis ULT pads. The initial bite of the Axxis pads is not as good as OEM, I'd say around 80-85% but the second one etc is amazingly better than OEM. These pads are also much more fade resistant and produce less dust than OEM. I also performed the brake bedding procedure once installed which further improved the pads' bite.
 

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Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
Did you bed the pads in properly? If you just had all this installed and drove away without bedding them in, I'm not surprised they suck. :)
What do you mean by bedding them properly....would you elaborate? The mechanic drove the car after he had installed the brakes, is that what he was doing or just test driving it?
 

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HaHa!

Your first car, eh?
Well, we've all been there, haven't we?

That mechanic was probly just joy-riding around burning your gas!

Take the pads out and take them to bed with you to keep them warm at night. That's what "bedding the pads" means.
 

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^+1 The heat of your body overnight, softens the compound sufficiently, that when it then grips the rotor, their surfaces mate...just like in bed too!

SRS, though, search 'brake pad bedding' follow directions exactly...basically many strong 'slows' from 60-20 after which the last one of which, you keep driving to let rotors cool...anyway, find specific instructions and print them out and follow them...and do it sometime a cop won't find you or that you'll freak out old people...you need an empty stretch of long highway...hope you can find one somewhere near!

HTH

Doug
 

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Your mechanic was just test driving it.

Here's brake bedding theory, if you're interested: http://stoptech.com/tech_info/wp_bedintheory.shtml

Remember, you can just drive and let your pad/rotors bond naturally, or force it by bedding. Note that if you don't have an area to safely bed your brakes, then don't do it. When I've bedded brakes, I've gone on the highway when there is minimal-to-no traffic, doing 60mph to 20mph or so braking, and never doing that level of braking if another car is near.

Here' an excerpt from a brake article by Carroll Smith on bedding:

All high performance after market discs and pads should come with both installation and break in instructions. The procedures are very similar between manufacturers. With respect to the pads, the bonding resins must be burned off relatively slowly to avoid both fade and uneven deposits. The procedure is several stops of increasing severity with a brief cooling period between them. After the last stop, the system should be allowed to cool to ambient temperature. Typically, a series of ten increasingly hard stops from 60mph to 5 mph with normal acceleration in between should get the job done for a high performance street pad. During pad or disc break-in, do not come to a complete stop, so plan where and when you do this procedure with care and concern for yourself and the safety of others. If you come to a complete stop before the break-in process is completed there is the chance for non-uniform pad material transfer or pad imprinting to take place and the results will be what the whole process is trying to avoid. Game over.

In terms of stop severity, an ABS active stop would typically be around 0.9 G’s and above, depending on the vehicle. What you want to do is stop at a rate around 0.7 to 0.9 G's. That is a deceleration rate near but below lock up or ABS intervention. You should begin to smell pads at the 5th to 7th stop and the smell should diminish before the last stop. A powdery gray area will become visible on the edge of the pad (actually the edge of the friction material in contact with the disc - not the backing plate) where the paint and resins of the pad are burning off. When the gray area on the edges of the pads are about 1/8" deep, the pad is bedded.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Thanks Dmax and especially Sansho for the instruction. I will try to do that.....I live close to downtown Minneapolis, so there aren't a lot of freeway that will be free. I might have to drive a little further away and then bedding wouldn't be an issue. I also don't mind the pads and rotor bonding naturally, as long as it does for sure.

Now, could you guys tell me what's up with the brake sensor light? Why doesn't it go away even after resetting?
 

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Thanks Dmax and especially Sansho for the instruction. I will try to do that.....I live close to downtown Minneapolis, so there aren't a lot of freeway that will be free. I might have to drive a little further away and then bedding wouldn't be an issue. I also don't mind the pads and rotor bonding naturally, as long as it does for sure.

Now, could you guys tell me what's up with the brake sensor light? Why doesn't it go away even after resetting?
Sorry, you did replace the sensors on both front and back? You know you can't reuse them once they've been triggered. Doublecheck that both are plugged in and maybe just for grins, clean off the connection with elect. cleaner. Only other thing I can think is that a wire has a split in it further up line or that you didn't 'really' reset it...not sure how to do that myself...but I'll figure it out soon enough!

Doug
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Sorry, you did replace the sensors on both front and back? You know you can't reuse them once they've been triggered. Doublecheck that both are plugged in and maybe just for grins, clean off the connection with elect. cleaner. Only other thing I can think is that a wire has a split in it further up line or that you didn't 'really' reset it...not sure how to do that myself...but I'll figure it out soon enough!

Doug
Yep, the shop replaced both sensors and I tried to reset it based on this thread: http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=791477&highlight=brake+sensor+light+reset

I am not sure why the reset trick isn't doing it. :facepalm:
 

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I do not recommend you do this "bedding in" procedure. I have never in my life been instructed to do that from any factory publication ever after installing new brake hardware. The recommendation I always see is to avoid violent braking if possible during the first 100-150 miles. BMW actually includes a turn signal stalk hanger with their pads that states "avoid violent braking, first 150 km"

why do the factory manuals for many different cars say to avoid violent braking for XX miles after installation? a conspiracy?

i say you drive the car normally and allow the pads mate naturally to the rotor and see if there is an improvement.
 

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I do not recommend you do this "bedding in" procedure. I have never in my life been instructed to do that from any factory publication ever after installing new brake hardware. The recommendation I always see is to avoid violent braking if possible during the first 100-150 miles. BMW actually includes a turn signal stalk hanger with their pads that states "avoid violent braking, first 150 km"

why do the factory manuals for many different cars say to avoid violent braking for XX miles after installation? a conspiracy?

i say you drive the car normally and allow the pads mate naturally to the rotor and see if there is an improvement.
Different pads actually come with different instructions. I have PBR/Axiis Metal Masters and them came with bedding in instructions. I say, do what the pad manufacturer specs. BTW, even the metal masters have better performance than OEM.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
I do not recommend you do this "bedding in" procedure. I have never in my life been instructed to do that from any factory publication ever after installing new brake hardware. The recommendation I always see is to avoid violent braking if possible during the first 100-150 miles. BMW actually includes a turn signal stalk hanger with their pads that states "avoid violent braking, first 150 km"

why do the factory manuals for many different cars say to avoid violent braking for XX miles after installation? a conspiracy?

i say you drive the car normally and allow the pads mate naturally to the rotor and see if there is an improvement.
My common sense would totally agree with what you just said. For example, when one buys an expensive pair of B&W audio speakers, they are told to not abuse it by playing too loud within first 100 hrs. Once the drivers or woofers are broken in then one gets the quality sound and can play it loud if. So I guess bedding or natural bonding both result in better braking then I guess going with latter option is better.
 

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Discussion Starter #19 (Edited)
Different pads actually come with different instructions. I have PBR/Axiis Metal Masters and them came with bedding in instructions. I say, do what the pad manufacturer specs. BTW, even the metal masters have better performance than OEM.
See I didn't even open the package I got from Turner, so I am not sure if the Ultimates came with any instruction on bedding.

So you really think metal master is better than OEM, ha? You are making me hopefull since Ultimates are supposed to be better than Metal Masters.
Do you really think there's any difference between Metal Masters vs. Ultimate? I mean for $20 more, I don't know how much better Ultimate is compare to Metal Master.
 

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Well, jeepers, before the bed/don't bed discussion goes off the road, here's what the brake pad manufacturer recommends:

Q. Are there special installation instructions, or break-in requirements?

A. Axxis brake pads exactly replace the original equipment pads your vehicle came with from the factory. The braking performance of our friction is superior to original equipment formulations. Here are our recommended Break-In Procedures:

BREAK-IN PROCEDURES
After installing new brakes, they need to be broken-in properly. To condition friction and rotors correctly, the following procedures should be followed:

1. Accelerate vehicle to 40 MPH.
2. Apply brakes using light to moderate pedal effort to reduce speed to approximately 10 MPH.
3. Repeat steps 1 and 2 at least ten times, allowing 1/4 mile between cycles.

Under no circumstances drive the vehicle with the brakes continually applied as a break-in procedure because:

1. Excessive heat will be generated.
2. Resins will burn.
3. Loss of braking efficiency could occur.
 
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