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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi All,

Bought a 325i for my son from an individual. Needed to get the car inspected so brought it to a Jiffy Lube, they said they couldn't pass it because of some pending results. Used the Torque app with a bluetooth OBD-II reader and see Incomplete for:
Evaporative Sys:
Secondary Air Sys:
O2 Sensor Heater
No check engine light, but had a pending code of P0441, reset the gas cap on the car and reset the codes.

Drove for about a week, still no CEL, but now pending code P0455 and all three above still show incomplete. I know two of the three need to pass for inspection.

Had my son buy a new gas cap today, since it seems those two codes are related. Should I reset the codes again? Really need to get this inspected. Any advice help would be greatly appreciated.
 

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The car has problems.

The SAP system should be the very first Readiness Monitor to clear on cold start.

The O2 sensor heater should be very close behind the SAP monitor.

My guess is there may be one or more lazy Pre-cat O2 sensors?

Evap is always the last and most difficult monitor to clear. You will need to keep the fuel tank at least 3/4 tank full during this period, but given you are getting P0441 and P0455 Pending codes, there may be a leak in the fuel supply or return system somewhere. Do you know if someone may have recently replaced the fuel pump? It is common for people to replace the fuel pump and screw up the pump seal. If the fuel pump seal is a problem, you may smell fuel when the tank if totally full until about 7/8th's of a tank, then the smell may weaken or go away. Easy to check by remove the rear seat bottom and pulling the passenger/right side access cover and looking on top of the tank.

Since you have Torque, you can Log the O2 sensors and see exactly what is going on.

Suggest you read these threads -

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=1041726&highlight=

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=1045691

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showpost.php?p=16250834&postcount=17

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showpost.php?p=16215221&postcount=5

This info is a bit old by maybe be helpful as a guide:

Torque Pro crib notes, short version.

Start Torque Pro program on Droid device.

Touch the Droid Menu button.

Choose Settings in Torque Pro.

Choose Data Logging & Upload.

Select what to log, choose only things you need to log for faster logging.

Select File Logging Interval, start with 1 second unless you have only a few items to log.

Select Log When Torque Is Started.

Select Only When OBD Connected.

Unselect Automatically Log GPS, this is a time and resource waster for OBD logging.

Decide what you want to select for Rotate Log Files.

Select Format Log Files.

Enter User Email Address.

Test Settings

From Realtime Information page, select the Droid Menu, select Email Logs, select what "TrackLog" to email and it should be in the CSV format.

For O2 sensor cold start testing suggest you open Torque get BT connected, you should have everything but OBDII datastream at this point, turn key on but do not start engine until the OBDII datasteam is running.

Start engine from cold overnight rest, do not touch the throttle or drive the car. Capture at 4 minutes of data then stop gathering data.

You can email me the log if you do not know how to properly graph the info.

This will help determine how good the O2 sensors are, then move on and get Fuel Trim figures at warm idle and steady highway cruise.

Freeze Frame info is also very useful.

G
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thank you jfoj! My son got home from work a couple hours ago...so need to wait for the car to get cold again. The person we bought the car from had recent paperwork on previous work done and I did not see that the fuel pump was ever replaced(not sure if it has). I went ahead and tried to run the torque app to log the sensors and here is a sample of the csv.

Device Time, G(x), G(y), G(z), G(calibrated),O2 Volts Bank 1 sensor 1(V),O2 Volts Bank 1 sensor 2(V),O2 Volts Bank 2 sensor 1(V),O2 Volts Bank 2 sensor 2(V)
06-Feb-2016 16:36:06.746,-1.11,6.41,6.64,-0.04,0.57,0.44,0.45,0.44
06-Feb-2016 16:36:07.757,-1.21,6.46,6.57,-0.03,0.57,0.44,0.45,0.44
06-Feb-2016 16:36:08.738,-1.21,6.46,6.57,-0.03,0.31,0.44,0.45,0.44
06-Feb-2016 16:36:09.739,-1.21,6.46,6.57,-0.03,0.31,0.44,0.6,0.44
06-Feb-2016 16:36:10.738,-1.21,6.46,6.57,-0.03,0.53,0.44,0.6,0.44
06-Feb-2016 16:36:11.738,-1.21,6.46,6.57,-0.03,0.53,0.44,0.38,0.44
06-Feb-2016 16:36:12.738,-1.21,6.46,6.57,-0.03,0.51,0.44,0.38,0.44
06-Feb-2016 16:36:13.739,-1.21,6.46,6.57,-0.03,0.51,0.44,0.51,0.44

Of course the format here is pretty bad, but does that look like what is needed?

Had some questions:
In the directions it says "turn key on but do not start engine until the OBDII datasteam is running." How can I tell when the datastream is running? I guessed that is was running when I started the engine....
Is there a way to tell if the car is cool enough to go ahead and do the test using the torque app? coolant temperature?
I have no idea how to graph the information, so your help would be greatly appreciated...
Thanks Again....
 

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The problem is the App needs to connect to the Bluetooth interface and then connect to the DME data stream. This can take 45+ seconds if you know what you are doing.

The Bluetooth interface is not powered on the OBDII data stream is not present until the ignition is turned on. If you start the engine before the App is communicating with the car you will loose valuable cold start data.

You either need to set up a DropBox Free account, a Google Drive account, or a Amazon data share account to easily upload the .CSV file.

You could possibly email it to me, however, I do not recall if the Forum will allow the attachment of files to mail messages. This is way some sort of file hosting site is best. If you choose DropBox Free, BE VERY CAREFUL, you DO NOT want to download and install the DropBox software on you computer. Search my user name and the word DropBox and you will see my suggestion on how to set up a DropBox Free account WITHOUT downloading and installing the software.

You really need to get the cold start Log from the car after it has sat overnight. This is best view for the O2 sensors and SAP functionality.

As for the Evap codes, could be a bad hose in the rear of the car connected to the LDP system if the car has the LDP pump. There are a few versions of the Evap system on these cars depending on the year and model.

But if someone has had a fuel pump or fuel level sender out, OR if a RODENT has nested on top of the fuel tank it could have chewed the top of a fuel level sender.

Very easy to remove the rear seat bottom and remove both access covers to the fuel tank and inspect for rodent nests/damage or if someone may have recently been into the fuel tank. Much easier that getting under the car to access the Evap system.

If the rubber sound proofing under the rear seat still has the webs uncut/unbroken, then chances are nobody has been under the mat, but still worth checking for rodent damage. It has been found on many a E46!
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
OK, I'll let it sit overnight, also need to put some gas in the car, think its at 1/2 tank. Just to make sure, here are the step I plan in the morning:
1. Attach the reader
2. Turn the car to on but not started
3. Open the Torque app, make sure it connects with bluetooth
4. Make sure the app connects to the data stream(if I can see the results from the Emissions readiness monitor, would that say its connected?)
5. Start the car
6. wait 4 minutes then stop logging
7. Email the logs

I will see if I can remove the back seat to look at the fuel pump....

Thanks so much...hopefully going to figure this out...
 

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Your plan looks good.

On cars this age, if you recently acquired it, you have no idea about the history and what bad things people may have done to the vehicle over the years.

You have to assume the worst and fully rule out all of the common problems.

Good luck.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I agree, never sure what actually has been done over the years.
I ran the test and checked the fuel pump, the rubber definately looks like it was cut at some point, and in pretty bad condition. But when I opened it up, didn't look that bad, added a picture with the csv file.
Here is the google drive link: https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B-dp6BllPavZY3NCZm1Jei1iUUk&usp=sharing
Thanks for you help....
 

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Fuel pump was clearly replaced at some point due to the worm drive hose clamp and the paint/glue not lining up.

As for the Log, you were close, BUT, I would really like to see things like RPM, Engine Coolant Tempeture, Fuel Trims and so forth.

The problem is I cannot tell exactly when the engine was started in the Log.

In general, at first glance, I cannot see the SAP operating. The Pre-cat O2 sensors may be lazy, but I do not know exactly when the engine was started.

Go ahead and get a 4 minute warm idle Log and rerun the cold start again in the morning.

Regarding the Evap codes, I think your model has the LDP system, it is under the car in the rear, there are plastic panels that need to be removed to access the canister and hoses. Might be worth a check under there as this car seems that it has seen a lot of back country roads based on what the top of the gas tank looks like.

You might check www.realoem.com for the diagrams, they are not 100% but will give you an idea of what parts are back there and where they may be located.

You can also check and see if you can find a service manual on http://workshop-manuals.com/bmw/

I would be ready to possibly replace both of the Pre-cat O2 sensors. You want Bosch Direct Fit sensors. Look the part numbers up on the Bosch site - https://www.boschautoparts.com/en/

Sometimes Amazon has good prices, sometimes RockAuto or even Advance or Autozone with online coupons.

Also check the SAP vacuum hose that runs from the Kombi valve on the front of the engine to the rear underside of the intake along the valve cover. This hose fails at about year 10. The original is usually hard plastic and it falls apart on the underside due to the heat from the exhaust.

Good luck.
 

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But on a decent working car, SAP Readiness Monitor will set on the first cold start.

No need to attempt to force it to set and in the case of a problem SAP system, not sure you could even force it to set if you cannot get air from the pump into the exhaust and/or the Pre-cat O2 sensors are lazy.

I have never had a car not set the SAP Readiness Monitor when everything it working properly. 90 seconds on cold start and SAP Readiness Monitor will set if O2 sensors are not lazy and the SAP system is working and has no leaking vacuum lines.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Just got back from a Super Bowl party and ran the test and added RPM, Engine Coolant Temperature, and Fuel Trims. The car has not been started for around 10 hours, so I think it would be considered a cold start? I'll try to take a look at the LDP system when I get home from work tomorrow. I started the car at 11:42, but I think you will see that when the RPM's show up. :) Thanks Again....Gene
 

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Replace both Pre-cat O2 sensors and then Log again.

I think once the Pre-cat O2 sensors are replaced, the SAP Readiness may clear.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
You da man jfoj!

Replaced both pre-cat o2 sensors and took the car out for a quick drive. When I got back and checked the monitors only the Evaporative Sys shows incomplete. So the car can now be taken to get inspected...Yee-haw! Thanks again....
 

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Evap is usually the last and most difficult Monitor to set. Try to keep the fuel level above 3/4 tank and give it a few days and it should clear. But as you may find out you may be able to get an Emission Inspection with 1 Monitor not clear.

When you get a chance, perform a 4 minute overnight cold start Log and I will look at the difference and graph them so you can post the before and after so others can see what we are looking for.

As I mentioned before SAP Monitor is VERY easy to clear on a good working vehicle with decent O2 sensors. No need for playing games and attempting to force these to Ready.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Did a cold start this morning and put the logs on the google drive:
https://drive.google.com/folderview?...Uk&usp=sharing

Have some new codes P0491 and P0492 but I did find a break in the SAP vacuum hose like you mentioned above:
"Also check the SAP vacuum hose that runs from the Kombi valve on the front of the engine to the rear underside of the intake along the valve cover. This hose fails at about year 10."
Ordered the vacuum hose, so thats next on the list. Thanks again....
 

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Pre-cat O2 sensors look MUCH better on cold start. Originals were very lazy.

BUT, I did not see the SAP functioning in this cold start, which was very cold at -2C.

I do not have my notes handy, but I do know that below a certain temperature the SAP will not run or only run for like 5 seconds. I believe this blow 20F or so.

But I am thinking there is still an operation problem that you have not caught yet. Probably a simple fix.

Here is the full enchilada of info I have gathered and commented on over a period of time. Happy reading.

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=1041726

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=1023149

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=965526

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=1052605

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=1074847

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=1074573

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=106959

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=1074847

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=106959

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=1078986
 
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