E46 Fanatics Forum banner
1 - 20 of 30 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
48 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi, Im in trouble and a lot of stupid serviceman waste my days. Please help me or show me a way....the problem is O2 post cat sensor's female plugs are does not exist on my car (E46 328ci 2000year) sound weird maybe, let me explain..I am living some problems about injection time (3rd injector's ms timing is not zero or in average timing range, its raising up to 2ms and later first and 2nd injectors too..my car engine start to shaking, my fuel consumption is not stable-idling is not regular) cause of that want to try install post cat O2 sensors on my new header's cat. (my car's first owner has removed this 2pcs O2 long sensors from catalitic conv.) and I started to search&find these 2 female plugs/signal cables for connect 2pcs O2 bosch sensors (990mm length cables) but there is no plug no cutted cable etc. Im already using 2pcs pre cat sensors (short cables) I follow their plug signal cables and lead to control unit DME box, I think long O2 sensor cables also must lead to control unit box right? If it is true, then I need buy used female cables and montage it onto right pins of control unit...but how? What I need, a schema, diagram or a drafting? which color cable, which pin etc...I could not find any document, schema or forum topic about it. Please help me, in last 2 days I visit a few serviceman and you really dont want to know their stupid comments! Hope someone can show me a way from our community. Best regards
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
48 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Maybe...but we search, check, change everything in last 3 months none of them fixed my problem. I know 6 proffesional servicemen and 4of them think its cause of O2 probes. Somethings trigger it and there is no alternatives except probes or last terrible possibity is engine/valves. But car's performance is perfect, there is no weird sounds, low performance etc about engine. Let me find where I must mount that female plugs and ser what will happen, I hope it will solve my problem. Any document or idea where is that signal cables of female socket/plugs?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,863 Posts
Can you please explain what the problem is ? What kind of codes are you getting?

I couldnt understand what was going on . And like mentioned above, post cat O2 sensors have absolutely no affect on cars performance or drive-ability
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
48 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
No my problem is not about performance or drive ability. The problem is "I am living some problems about injection time (3rd injector's ms timing is not zero or in average timing range, its raising up to 2ms and later first and 2nd injectors too..my car engine start to shaking, my fuel consumption is not stable-idling is not regular/changing day by day" there is no error code on computer. Im starting engine, we monitor 6 injection ignition ms timings & air flow intake kg live values on computer. First 20/30 seconds everything perfect, in acceptable range, every injection times must be near zero ms, if its change/raise up to 2ms its a problem (servicemen says), and air flow must take 11/14kg air...but after 20/30 seconds 3rd injector's ms is starting to up 2ms and more and later 1st&2nd changing/raise up from zero ms, and finally air flow goes up to 20kg air...its my problem. I bought 2 pcs long O2 sensors and want to plug it to female plug where it comes (from main control unit DME or wherever) but I could not find that 2 plugs :(
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
713 Posts
No my problem is not about performance or drive ability. The problem is "I am living some problems about injection time (3rd injector's ms timing is not zero or in average timing range, its raising up to 2ms and later first and 2nd injectors too..my car engine start to shaking, my fuel consumption is not stable-idling is not regular/changing day by day" there is no error code on computer. Im starting engine, we monitor 6 injection ignition ms timings & air flow intake kg live values on computer. First 20/30 seconds everything perfect, in acceptable range, every injection times must be near zero ms, if its change/raise up to 2ms its a problem (servicemen says), and air flow must take 11/14kg air...but after 20/30 seconds 3rd injector's ms is starting to up 2ms and more and later 1st&2nd changing/raise up from zero ms, and finally air flow goes up to 20kg air...its my problem. I bought 2 pcs long O2 sensors and want to plug it to female plug where it comes (from main control unit DME or wherever) but I could not find that 2 plugs :(
DME (Engine conrol module] controls duration of fuel injection based on signals from the pre-cat O2 sensors not from the post-cat O2 sensors. Post-cat O2 sensors will not fix your idle problem.

Anyway, here is the picture showing the female connectors for the post-cat O2 sensors. Thery are secured on the fuel rail under the engine cover.



Your description sounds like you have rough idle problem. Our engine is very sensitive about rough idle and will set a some type of code if idle is as bad as you are describing.

Injector timing should be near zero ms is not a correct statement. If it is zero, injectors are not working. Does it make sense to you? 0 ms means no time for fuel injection. Mechanics may mean adaption value.

What software are you using?
Anything like this? Post a picture of what you are monitoring for more help.

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showpost.php?p=14282143&postcount=95
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
48 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Dear E46Fanatics,
We are having hard time *finding our female outlets, i think previous owner cut them out. my question is that where should we start creating our female outlet?*

If we buy a new/used cable and try yo create our own female outlets, where should be connect other end (signal cables...are they leading us to DME or control unit?) and can u tell me exact pin numbers so that we can able to create our own female outlet?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,863 Posts
You guys just dont get it ! Post cat O2 sensors will have ZERO affect on your problem .

If you are so certain to put in post cat O2 sensors then find the ends of the wires that you think were cut by previous owner, look at the wire loom at the end of the engine , between the head and the intake manifold. Look at where you Pre cat sensors are connected and look in that area for a cut wire, if the wire was cut then it would be there because there is no other place for it to be. Go to a just yard and cut the female plug from a scrap car and rewire it to yours.

But again, you should spend time elsewhere . You said there are no codes, how come? If the connection is broken then a code well be send and if the car is having idle problems then there must be codes. There must be some codes that you are not reading.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
48 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Sorry for the confussion we didnt explain you clearly, there is no left over cables anywhere, i believe previous owner took out every single cables from DME, i just need to rewire the whole thing from DME, i am just asking your help if you know correct connection pin numbers to female outlet?
Honestly, we are not sure if female outlets comes out from DME or somewhere else!
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
7,267 Posts
You still don't get it.. O2 sensors after the catalytic converter can NOT be causing your injector problems.
It is something else, most likely fuel delivery, vacuum leak, or dirty/clogged/aged components. (Injectors/ICV/MAF)

I could name a thousand other things causing the car's problems, but you have to understand the cause is something else besides the post-cat O2's.
If you want real help, accept this fact and start helping us help you by posting up some trouble codes.

Regardless if you need to solder in the post O2 connectors, look here: http://wds.spaghetticoder.org/en/e46/Complete_vehicle/Drive/
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,318 Posts
The BMW ECUs only show one injection duration that I have seen.

There is 6 individual "smooth running" values shown.
I suspect the OP is talking about a misfire on cylinder 3 based on the smooth running values.

I suggest a large (20 gallon) bottle of Chevron Techron or a bottle of Red Line S1 in the next full tank of premium gas and monitor the values again after about half a tank.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
48 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Yes ok I understand and will check trouble codes when I will go service&connect to computer (I havent got my own) will let u know asap. Honestly, I also think the same possibilities as your written, especially DME wiring, injector signal cables or injectors. If all these are not, then last terrible possibility is valve (hope it will not) thank you so much for your interest really
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
48 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Injector timing should be near zero ms is not a correct statement. If it is zero, injectors are not working. Does it make sense to you? 0 ms means no time for fuel injection. Mechanics may mean adaption value.

What software are you using?
Anything like this? Post a picture of what you are monitoring for more help.

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showpost.php?p=14282143&postcount=95
They are using DIS named program, Im not sure about name of that program really and about version. In main page there is a BMW E60 photo...maybe its usefull tip. But monday I will go the same service and will check their program's name, error code numbers. And will write here (asap).

And yes you are right about "injector timing must not be zero". Probably, I written wrong words for description. Can not remember what was the keywords on that screen when they are see live values of 6 injections timings (ms). I check your "adaption values" screen link, no it is not the same screen and values what we saw. I will take a screenshot and will upload in Monday, but I want to try explain what I saw; He choosed every injector's xxx (Im not sure what is the command/word) one by one from the right box on the screen, and later pressed the play button at the right bottom of screen. Program showed 6 injector's times seperately (each line) at the bottom of the screen. All miliseconds were 0 or 0,1 in first 20-30 seconds. Later, 3rd injector's value start to raise 0,5-7-1,5-2,0-2,5.....3,0 and more...meanwhile (when these values start to changing) 1st and 2nd values also start to get raise up. I forgot to add, he choosed air intake kg value line too, we saw it at the end of line, it was 11kg when everything is zero ms, but when times (ms) start to change, air intake value also start to change from 11-12kg to 14, 16, 20kg...

As I said before, I will go to service in Monday morning and will check error codes, screenshots and program's name/version.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
709 Posts
How many miles are on the car? The injector timing means nothing, they are changing to adapt different sensory values within the engine. Pre-catalytic O2 sensors can change the length in the injection of fuel to make the engine run richer or leaner. Again, how many miles are on your car?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,318 Posts
The POST Cat O2 sensors can also cause the ECU to change the injection time:

See page 25 of this document - http://www.bmwmotorsports.org/BMW_docs/m54x5.pdf

POST CATALYTIC CONVERTER SENSOR SIGNAL
The post catalyst O2 sensors monitor the efficiency of the catalyst as a requirement of OBD
II. This signal also provides feedback of the pre-catalyst sensors efficiency and can cause
the ECM to ***8220;trim***8221; the ms injection time to correct for slight deviations.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
48 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
The POST Cat O2 sensors can also cause the ECU to change the injection time:

See page 25 of this document - http://www.bmwmotorsports.org/BMW_docs/m54x5.pdf

POST CATALYTIC CONVERTER SENSOR SIGNAL
The post catalyst O2 sensors monitor the efficiency of the catalyst as a requirement of OBD
II. This signal also provides feedback of the pre-catalyst sensors efficiency and can cause
the ECM to "trim" the ms injection time to correct for slight deviations.
Soo? :) now we got a clue, and your this informatin is support my doubt about O2 post sensor. Correct? If we dont have any post O2 sensor on cat, then ECU cant take data from cat, cause of that make wrong and injector time ms is goes up (first 3rd, later 1st/2nd)? Am I understand right?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
445 Posts
no you are not understand right. i've been running without my post cat 02 sensors in for almost a year now with no problems other than a check engine light.

To me, your problem sounds like your pre-cat 02 sensors MIGHT be connected backwards. Meaning the sensor for cylinders 1, 2, and 3 MIGHT be plugged into the female outlet for cylinders 4, 5, and 6 and vice versa. The m54 fires in this order: 1 5 3 6 2 4 but if those sensors are backwards it reads 4 2 6 3 5 1, the opposite of the anticipated firing order. When I had this mix up on my car i had similar running issues to yours. It would run right at first and then if I stepped on it or if it idled long enough or even just drove easily long enough it would start misfiring.

Swapping the pre-cat 02 plugs is a really quick and easy task that you might as well try.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,318 Posts
I am not yet convinced that your "problem" is caused by the lack of your post cat O2 sensors.
If you could list the error codes that would help us understand.

The Post cat O2 sensors are right after the cats that are built into the exhaust manifolds on the US models.
The European models had a different exhaust with the cats further back in the exhaust, and different connection locations for the post cat O2 sensors.

11/2000 328i exhaust system from RealOEM.com



RealOEM also shows this:



Part number 8 indicates that SOME were built without cat converters.

No. Description Supplement
8 For vehicles withwithout catalytic converter S199A=Yes

Maybe your car is one that didn't come from BMW with cat converters?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
48 Posts
Discussion Starter · #20 ·
The POST Cat O2 sensors can also cause the ECU to change the injection time:

See page 25 of this document - http://www.bmwmotorsports.org/BMW_docs/m54x5.pdf

POST CATALYTIC CONVERTER SENSOR SIGNAL
The post catalyst O2 sensors monitor the efficiency of the catalyst as a requirement of OBD
II. This signal also provides feedback of the pre-catalyst sensors efficiency and can cause
the ECM to "trim" the ms injection time to correct for slight deviations.
I mean, what if there isn't any connection between ECU and*CATALYTIC CONVERTER, do you think, it'll change the*efficiency?
 
1 - 20 of 30 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top