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1.4K views 16 replies 13 participants last post by  yjsaabman  
#1 ·
Hi everyone,

I'm looking for advice on a repair situation with my friend's 200k mile 2003 325i which has been showing its age with some serious issues lately. Here's the situation:

The vehicle developed oil leaks from the oil pan and valve cover gaskets due to age. On top of that, the water pump failed. This caused the engine to overheat, making the oil leaks worse and eventually causing the vehicle to run low on oil. Because of this, the VANOS gear solenoid and the timing chain also failed. After an inspection, the mechanic said the engine itself seems fine, but they recommend replacing the coolant pump, timing chain, valve cover, oil pan, and doing an oil change. They quoted $11,600, but they offered to bring it down to $9,800. If decide not to repair it, they’re only offering me $250 to take it off our hands.

My main concerns are:
  • Is this a reasonable cost for the recommended repairs?
  • Should I consider selling the vehicle as-is and getting something else, or would this repair extend the vehicle’s life enough to justify the cost?
  • Are there any alternatives to consider, like focusing on essential repairs or finding ways to reduce costs?
  • Is it difficult if we do our own repair?
Any thoughts or similar experiences are appreciated!
 
#3 ·
The only hard project there is the timing chain. The rest you could DIY or get done for substantially less. I would replace the gaskets and seals then see if the problem is resolved.

Honestly, if you cannot DIY, I would suggest a different platform. $10k is a huge amount of money, and you could get another e46 and refresh the cooling system and gaskets for materially less
 
#4 ·
  • Is this a reasonable cost for the recommended repairs? - Depends on what needs to be done, where it is located, and shop time/cost - none of which we know.
  • Should I consider selling the vehicle as-is and getting something else, or would this repair extend the vehicle’s life enough to justify the cost? - No way to know without knowing a crap ton of detail, including inspection.
  • Are there any alternatives to consider, like focusing on essential repairs or finding ways to reduce costs? - Possibly - maybe buying a good used engine - does the mechanic definitely know that the block is not cracked or the head gasket blown?
  • Is it difficult if we do our own repair? - All depends on if you have the place/room, tools, and the level of mechanical ability - we know none of these.
$9800 is still more than it is worth...
 
#5 ·
$9800 is still more than it is worth
The $xxx is more than it is worth argument is logically suspect.

You could have a car “worth” zero and it would make a ton of sense to spend $2400 on a repair. You shouldn’t compare cost of repair with the current value of a car, you should compare it with the cost of an alternative.

Presuming you want/need a car, then ask what you would do if the e46 were gone. Would you buy another used? Lease a car? The average monthly cost of this alternative is what you should compare the repair cost to. In my zero cost case, if $2400 were the only repair in a year, then that is $200 per month. Given that the average lease is now north of $600, then it is clearly better than that. And if the alternative is a $10k used lease the comparative cost would be $10k plus estimated annual maintenance minus estimated resale in 3 years divided by 36.

$10k of repairs (especially because he also needs an intake refresh and suspension) is too much, but not because the car is worth less, but because a reasonable alternative is cheaper.
 
#8 ·
If you're not a DIY person, but rather you would rely on a mechanic, then a 20+ years old BMW is probably not a cost effective car for you.

In terms of the quote that you got for water pump, timing chain, valve cover gasket, oil pan gasket and an oil change, $9800 is extremely high in my opinion. How many hours of labor are they quoting you? I would get a second quote.
 
#9 ·
The most important question: is the engine repairable in situ?
If yes and it costs less than the car is worth, then it might be worth it.

If it needs to be pulled and rebuilt, then it’s probably better to install a good used engine instead.
Rebuilding is rarely worth it unless you have the space, tools, time, experience, and @Effduration level skills to do it yourself.

Forget about that crack pipe shop, and find someone who can determine exactly what is wrong and articulate specifically what needs to be done to fix it.
 
#11 ·
I see plenty of running cars in really good condition with less than 100K miles sell for less than $9800. Unless the car holds great sentimental value, $9800 is pretty crazy.

I don't know where you are located, but I'm pretty sure the last time I asked about a M3 engine swap, the cost including the S54 engine and transmission, the cost was not that much more than $9800. You can probably find a totaled E46 and get the engine out for much less.

Plus you overheated the car enough to cause the leak to get worse. For a mechanic to say the engine itself is fine is a little out there IMO.

If the 325 has good body panels and decent interior, people will pay you more than $250 for the car. On the other hand, a rusted out car with ripped interior wouldn't / should have $9800 spent on engine work....
 
#12 ·
For $9.8K one can buy two 200k-mile 325i BMWs in good condition, three if with automatic transmissions... :)
The recommendation to replace the timing chain is questionable, everything else is fine, if the head gasket really is ok.
While doing these repairs, one can (and should) throw in a bunch of other things at a little to no additional labor cost...
 
#14 ·
Even at $9.8k, that's an absurd amount for a 2003 325i with 200k miles on it. The parts cost for what you listed is less than $1k. To get to that high of an estimate, I calculate that shop is charging over $300 an hour for labor which is insane.

The problem as I see it is, even at half that price, your friend still has a car with over 200k miles on the rest of the vehicle i.e. trans, suspension, etc. Unless your friend has already put a ton of money into maintenance on that car and it has a lot of new(ish) parts already installed it's not really a sound investment of their resources.

Your friend won't get much for it selling "as is" but there are several alternatives: Your friend can drive it till it drops, sell it for whatever they can get for it now and apply that to another car, do the repairs yourselves for a fraction of the cost or even swap the engine out with a locally sourced used engine with less miles for far less than you're being quoted for repairs.

Doing the repairs yourself isn't all the difficult but you'll need a garage to work out of, the tools to do the job, a good parts budget to replace any parts that break while doing the repairs and some decent DIY skills. As others have posted, the only tricky job is the timing chain but even that is doable and within scope of a DIY repair but it takes a bit of time. The labor rate for the timing chain alone is 8-12 labor hours. If you have never done that type of work before, best to double that time.

The E46 is a great car but not a great investment if you don't do at least most of the maintenance yourself. If you need to rely on a shop to do all your repairs, the cost of maintenance very quickly exceeds the value of the car and you're better off buying a toyota or something like that.

However, if your friend really wants to stick with the E46 platform, there is no shortage of these cars out there at all price ranges - just don't buy an inexpensive one unless you're prepared to do a bunch of maintenance on it. I'd would recommend spending no less than around $4-5k+ on a different E46 with lower miles and at least most of the maintenance already done. All your friend has to do then is simply drive it and enjoy it. Good luck. :)
 
#15 ·
That's an overt-the-top estimate. A reputable shop would be suggesting a used or rebuilt engine, not the stacked labor cost of every repair they can think of.

I also think that the list of repairs is likely wrong. An overheat is most likely to warp the head. The oil use is most likely due to clogged oil control rings, not external leaks. The oil filter housing gasket is a common source of M54 oil leaks, and it should be replaced before evaluating the pan gasket. The valve cover often warps, requiring replacement to get a good seal.
 
#17 ·
It sounds like a lot of deferred maintenance and general lack of knowledge/care for the car led to this situation. Hearing the story it sounds to me like the owner of this car should not be driving a 20 year old BMW with 200k miles on it, as it will need regular care and maintenance. Time for this person to cut their losses and sink their money into something Asian that won't require the attention they don't seem to want to give a car.