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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi,

I am looking for precise times on e46 330i cars with automatic transmission.

Test:
* Car standstill with engine running and brakes on.
* Gearbox on M1
* Release brakes and press accelerator all the way to initiate kick-down and start stopwatch simultaneously
* Wait for speedo indicating 100km/h or 62mph (not 60mph !) and stop the stopwatch/ or wait for the moment when automatic would disengage M2 to switch to M3 (this is around 100km/h).
* Post your time here.

Hint:
With standard R18 rear tires (255/35R18) you should hit ~100 km/h right when gearbox switches to gear to 3rd. This is about the same for both ZHP and standard 330i as higher rpm of ZHP compensate for shorter rear diff.

Thank you.
 

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If you are asking people to post personal times, there are way too many variables to take into consideration (temperature, pressure, humidity, elevation, surface, vehicle maintenance, etc). My car is an auto 323, but for example: (using a g-tech) I've hit a 8.0 0-60mph when it was 90 degrees outside and dry, and a 6.8 0-60 when it was 55 degrees and raining (humid). Its all about variables.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I just measured today over 3 attempts on my 330i ZHP 2004.12 (latest BMW engine and gearbox programmed by SSS progman v32 with latest updates they had) and hit the shift from 2nd to 3rd at:

1. 7.1s.
2. 6.9s.
3. 7.0s.

Measured not from moment when it starts moving but from moment when I press pedal to the metal as described in the first post.

I am running 245/40R18 all around so I have a bit higher speed on the same RPM. Also I do not look at speedometer for the same reason.

And this is how my car shifts (again this is with 245/40R18 tires):
~RPM GEAR DIFF TIRE, m calculated SPEED, km/h
~6,200 3.42 3.64 2.0515 61.30
~6,500 2.21 3.64 2.0515 99.46

It would be interesting to know at whitch RPM your automatic 330i shifts...
 

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I just measured today over 3 attempts on my 330i ZHP 2004.12 (latest BMW engine and gearbox programmed by SSS progman v32 with latest updates they had) and hit the shift from 2nd to 3rd at:

1. 7.1s.
2. 6.9s.
3. 7.0s.

Measured not from moment when it starts moving but from moment when I press pedal to the metal as described in the first post.

I am running 245/40R18 all around so I have a bit higher speed on the same RPM. Also I do not look at speedometer for the same reason.

And this is how my car shifts (again this is with 245/40R18 tires):
~RPM GEAR DIFF TIRE, m calculated SPEED, km/h
~6,200 3.42 3.64 2.0515 61.30
~6,500 2.21 3.64 2.0515 99.46

It would be interesting to know at whitch RPM your automatic 330i shifts...
Those tires are slowing you down a bit... It's about the equivalent of downgrading to a 3.55 diff. I'm surprised your car doesn't shift at redline... I've never driven a ZHP auto, but the 325 and 330 autos I've driven always shifted right at 6500 even in 1st gear. Did you clear the engine and tranny adaptations after updating the modules?

Also FWIW, it wouldn't be too hard to recalibrate your speedometer and odometer for your new tire size (you do need to know how to modify daten files though since it'd be a custom value and NCS Expert doesn't allow direct nettodata coding for the old cars... or you could use something like PASoft - that's what I did since I changed to 275/35 from 255/40 on my M3)

If you are asking people to post personal times, there are way too many variables to take into consideration (temperature, pressure, humidity, elevation, surface, vehicle maintenance, etc). My car is an auto 323, but for example: (using a g-tech) I've hit a 8.0 0-60mph when it was 90 degrees outside and dry, and a 6.8 0-60 when it was 55 degrees and raining (humid). Its all about variables.
I have a very hard time believing an auto 323 could pull off a 6.8 0-60 in any conditions... What'd you use to measure out of curiosity?
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Those tires are slowing you down a bit... It's about the equivalent of downgrading to a 3.55 diff. I'm surprised your car doesn't shift at redline... I've never driven a ZHP auto, but the 325 and 330 autos I've driven always shifted right at 6500 even in 1st gear. Did you clear the engine and tranny adaptations after updating the modules?



I have a very hard time believing an auto 323 could pull off a 6.8 0-60 in any conditions... What'd you use to measure out of curiosity?
Regarding shifting not at redline - it is strange, but probably has a reason to it as even on ZHP torque drops after about 6000rpm and at low speed power is less needed than torque. I knew that it shifts at about 6200 to from 1st to 2nd, I was a bit surprised to see that it shifts at 6500 to 3rd. Now I am thinking I need to test when it shifts from 2nd to 3rd.
 

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Regarding shifting not at redline - it is strange, but probably has a reason to it as even on ZHP torque drops after about 6000rpm and at low speed power is less needed than torque. I knew that it shifts at about 6200 to from 1st to 2nd, I was a bit surprised to see that it shifts at 6500 to 3rd. Now I am thinking I need to test when it shifts from 2nd to 3rd.
No.

You can't forget about gear multiplication. The torque to the wheels will be greater at 6800 in 1st gear than it'd be at 3500 in 2nd. In higher gears where the multiplicative effect is smaller, there might be some merit to short shifting, but I don't think that's actually the case with our cars.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 · (Edited)
No.

You can't forget about gear multiplication. The torque to the wheels will be greater at 6800 in 1st gear than it'd be at 3500 in 2nd. In higher gears where the multiplicative effect is smaller, there might be some merit to short shifting, but I don't think that's actually the case with our cars.
It looks like the 3500 torque is higher than 6800. I don't know much about torque multiplication.

And I think I cannot do anything to the transmission to make it shift in different way. Unfortunately.

 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
RPM RPM on next gear.
6200 3.42
6500 2.21 4006
6800 1.6 4488
6,800 1.00 3875
6,800 0.75 4650

Asumming that on 2 to 3 it shifts on redline :)
 

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It looks like the 3500 torque is higher than 6800. I don't know much about torque multiplication.

And I think I cannot do anything to the transmission to make it shift in different way. Unfortunately.

Gear multiplication is about as simple as it gets... Why do you think people upgrade their differentials? They increase the amount of torque that gets to the ground (at the expense of how long they can sustain that torque)

Your gear ratio in 1st is 3.67, your gear ratio in 2nd is 2.00. Your differential and your tires are constant, so we'll factor those out. Drivetrain loss should also be constant, so we don't have to factor that in either.

Crank Torque @ 6800 = 150 lb-ft. At 3500 it's about 200

150 * 3.67 = 550
200 * 2.00 = 400

That means that at redline in 1st gear, you're making 1.375 times more torque than you would ever make in 2nd gear. That means we're talking about a 546 lb-ft difference once we factor the differential in. In reality we're talking about a greater difference since 150 is the minimum torque value and 200 is the maxima.

Your transmission should be shifting at redline. Every auto e46 (and non-e46 BMWs too for that matter) i drove shifted right at redline. That's why I asked if you cleared both the DME and EGS adaptations after reflashing the components.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Today I heated up engine to 97C, cleared all engine adaptations and gearbox adaptations. Wnet through all RPM range 700 to 6800 while parked. My redline is confirmed to be 6800 :)
Did two runs on the same perfect road.
First run not timed - it was slow. There was hesitation in shifting from 1st to 2nd. Also I think it tried to shift at 6800.
I was really disappointed.
But did the timed run anyway. No hesitations! shifted perfectly. Did the run in 6.6 seconds!!! Now it shifted definitely lower than 6800.
Actually car does accelerate stronger - can clearly feel how hard rear suspension compresses and front raises! Nice feeling :)
Could not do more runs as road workers came and started sidewalk cleaning which raised clouds of dust. :(

I am very happy with my 6.6 seconds. So resetting adaptations does help. :)
 

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Gear multiplication is about as simple as it gets... Why do you think people upgrade their differentials? They increase the amount of torque that gets to the ground (at the expense of how long they can sustain that torque)

Your gear ratio in 1st is 3.67, your gear ratio in 2nd is 2.00. Your differential and your tires are constant, so we'll factor those out. Drivetrain loss should also be constant, so we don't have to factor that in either.

Crank Torque @ 6800 = 150 lb-ft. At 3500 it's about 200

150 * 3.67 = 550
200 * 2.00 = 400

That means that at redline in 1st gear, you're making 1.375 times more torque than you would ever make in 2nd gear. That means we're talking about a 546 lb-ft difference once we factor the differential in. In reality we're talking about a greater difference since 150 is the minimum torque value and 200 is the maxima.

Your transmission should be shifting at redline. Every auto e46 (and non-e46 BMWs too for that matter) i drove shifted right at redline. That's why I asked if you cleared both the DME and EGS adaptations after reflashing the components.
Thanks for that Dyno chart, anyone have one for the standard 330i or better yet, an overlay?

I'm not sure why you guys are debating torque, because all that matters for acceleration is HP to the wheels over a given time. Yes torque may be higher at lower RPM, but if you factor in engine speed, HP will be greater at higher RPM.

The reason higher final drives are desireable is get you to the higher RPM quicker and to keep you up there between gears.
 
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