E46 Fanatics Forum banner
1 - 20 of 40 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
699 Posts
Ladies and gents,

I moved this very useful info from Jason's thread and created a new one. I didn't want it getting lost in the other thread since there is very good info. You guys can continue to build in here for other members to see. :thumbsup:






So correct me im wrong but shouldn't a wing mount be welded/attached all the way down to the rear shock mounts or a cage if installed to actually provide noticeable downforce?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,848 Posts
So correct me im wrong but shouldn't a wing mount be welded/attached all the way down to the rear shock mounts or a cage if installed to actually provide noticeable downforce?
If you sit on top of a trunk or IN a trunk, the same effect takes place. I see lots of big wings that are simply trunk top mounted with no fancy through brackets. That is an option, not a necessity with STEEL trunks. Composite trunks probably benefit from some type of through mounting system.

As long as the surface you are mounting on shows no flex or stress under pressure/speed/use, then you are fine. The entire down force is transmitted right from the surface of the trunk downwards. Go back to the concept of a giant hand pushing on top of trunk or inside an open trunk. Same result. The tires are pressed against the road surface with X amount of pounds of force.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,848 Posts
And for all you haters... wings add at least 50 HP :p They also happen to look deadly. :evil:
True that! A MINIMUM of 50HP!! Seriously, down force can be addicting like HP. I started out with a small AC Shnitzter wing. Quite noticeable in its down-force. So I wanted more. I got a giant APR wing which is like a giant radar bulls eye and cop magnet. Also a magnet for some derision as it brings up negative feelings like those 200HP Civics with HUGE wings mounted only for looks and ego.

Grassroots magazine recently did an excellent acticle on down-force. It educated me so I got a large APR front SPLITTER and DIVE PLANES to balance out the huge increase in rear down force.

I highly recommend Grass Roots mag, especially for any one doing HPDE events. Doing a sweeping high speed turn of 2G's is something few ever get the chance to experience. That is what happens when down-force is greatly magnified...your grip far exceeds that which your tires would normally give you. Some cars generate enough down force that they could literally be driven upside down with out falling. I wonder if anyone has ever done this in a test somehow. The theory is sound.


"Fast cars produce very little drag, and lots of downforce. F1 cars produce so much downforce that theoretically they can drive upside down when traveling at the speed of 150 km an hour. In fact, according to Dr. Suleman, drivers will experience a force of 3 Gs when driving in their F1 cars. That's three times the car's own weight!"

http://www.discoverychannel.ca/Article.aspx?aid=13512
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
1,922 Posts
Can't tell if sarcasm/condescension .
Neither, education. PM me for a better understanding. I'd personally like to know more about the wing and how much clearance/rubber is used to off set the chassis moving. Also why not get a wing that doubles as an air brake? Air brakes are the sh!t! I feel as if the wing is 50% looks and 50% function. Also what don't you like about corning at high speeds without this wing?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,848 Posts
Neither, education. PM me for a better understanding. I'd personally like to know more about the wing and how much clearance/rubber is used to off set the chassis moving. Also why not get a wing that doubles as an air brake? Air brakes are the sh!t! I feel as if the wing is 50% looks and 50% function. Also what don't you like about corning at high speeds without this wing?
Wings that double as air brakes are mostly seen on F1 cars. Watch them, there is a whole section that opens up on the straights and closes when the speed drops. It functions to add more down force at slower speeds and has some braking efect too. How much braking I dont know. Most braking is from real brakes.

The GTC style wings that we use CAN be bought in electric form(VERY expensive!!). They tilt more aggressively going into a corner. All that does is give the wing a greater angle of attack and increase efficiency of down force at slower speeds. The wing will then flatten out at speed to lessen drag. The angle need not be severe at speed for the wing to work well.

I have a real issue using a wing because of the PERCEPTION that I am using it to look cool. I use a wing knowing that most people think it is ridiculous and grand standing. Its actually a brave thing to commit to wing for its PURPOSE. Its purpose is 100% down force (except those o 200hp Civics) I probably will end up removing the big GTC wing for street use.

On the track, however, with the 67" GTC wing, you can feel the car grip the road like nothing you have ever felt in your life. You can take sweeping turns at HUGE speeds that would have you careening off the track. I say the track.

I think the large GTC wings are only necessary for track use. Because of the negative connotation of LARGE wings, I am going to try to switch to the much smaller Shnitzer wing for my daily use on the roads. It works pretty good too, but nothing like a full size GTC wing.(HPDE only)

I hate when i see guys who ONLY have a giant wing on the back. It means they have not studied the Science of ground effects. You MUST have an equal force forward in the form of a splitter or even some added canards or what they call "dive planes". Those pretty much stay on the car all the time.

I wish you could read the same large article in Grassroots Motorsports Magazine that I read. It went in depth as the right and WRONG way to equip any car with aero add ons. It showed lots of cars whose owners had things all wrong and then photos of cars who got it right. It was so interesting.

How does the said company market that? I :clap: your responses. Well said! I wish the vendors had half the passion you do, in your posts!
Methanol injector? What? I dont need no steenking methanol injector!:pimpin:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,163 Posts
While I'm not generally a fan of wings on cars there are a few that I think look good with wings. The Asuka Widebodys (Jason's car), and the RWB Widebody Porsche's for one. Not everything has to be done for performance.. for example my front 'lip' .. the only body mod done to my car. I like it.. some don't.. its certainly not there to do anything functional. That is unless its function is mearly to serve as a piece between my bumper and the curb that breaks first letting me know I've gotten to close to the curb.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,848 Posts
While I'm not generally a fan of wings on cars there are a few that I think look good with wings. The Asuka Widebodys (Jason's car), and the RWB Widebody Porsche's for one. Not everything has to be done for performance.. for example my front 'lip' .. the only body mod done to my car. I like it.. some don't.. its certainly not there to do anything functional. That is unless its function is mearly to serve as a piece between my bumper and the curb that breaks first letting me know I've gotten to close to the curb.
If you want to play around with aero stuff for looks that's fine..up to a point. If someone slaps a giant wing on the back of a 900hp car and does not have the matching/balancing splitter up front then the car can become unstable at great speeds (floating front end). If the car is never taken over 130mph, tha is probably fine. If you routinely make long passes in the 160mph plus range you are better off with nothing as opposed to a giant wing in the back. The huge wing is going to put an inordinate amount of force on the rear section of the car and the front will have a tendency to float.

As for lips. Yeah. lips are cool looking. I have a Strassentch lip that I bought purely for looks. I had a small AC Shnitzer wing out back that gave me a nice little bit of downforce...not enough for me to need a matching splitter.

But tack a giant 72 inch wing the size of a small Boeing on the back and you are going to upsept the apple cart. It is going to need a splitter up front to remain stable at any high speeds. This is according to articles dedicated to properly equip a car with aero effects. It agrees with basic physics when you think about it.

Take a model car, say a RC car with shocks. Press down on the rear. What happens? The front comes up, right? That is exactly what is happening when you put a giant wing on a car and hurtle it doen the road at high speeds. Add a front splitter....that is the pressure from your other hand now. What happens? Car is level.

At some point you are going to need to recognize when your cosmetic efforts are playing havoc with your handling. Granted, this is only for the really big aero pieces, not small and medium wings.

So, modify away, but be aware that some of the really huge pieces need to be added with scrutiny.

Marcus,

In this particular case I don't mind you posting this PM I sent to you however next time please alert/ask me first. There was a reason why I didn't publicly post on your thread I referred to in my PM. I wanted to stay out of any spotlight/drama.
I prefer to keep Private Messages, private.

Much Appreciated,

JC
I was going to comment on this thing when the PM was first posted. But I surely assumed Marcus has asked permission before he published a PM from another member. This is sacred ground guys. Under NO circumstances should a member ever publicly post a PM with out permission. Also state that permission was given when you do. This why the word 'private" is part of "PM." The content of the PM has nothing to do with the decision to post it. Permission, period.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,163 Posts
If you want to play around with aero stuff for looks that's fine..up to a point. If someone slaps a giant wing on the back of a 900hp car and does not have the matching/balancing splitter up front then the car can become unstable at great speeds (floating front end). If the car is never taken over 130mph, tha is probably fine. If you routinely make long passes in the 160mph plus range you are better off with nothing as opposed to a giant wing in the back. The huge wing is going to put an inordinate amount of force on the rear section of the car and the front will have a tendency to float.

As for lips. Yeah. lips are cool looking. I have a Strassentch lip that I bought purely for looks. I had a small AC Shnitzer wing out back that gave me a nice little bit of downforce...not enough for me to need a matching splitter.

But tack a giant 72 inch wing the size of a small Boeing on the back and you are going to upsept the apple cart. It is going to need a splitter up front to remain stable at any high speeds. This is according to articles dedicated to properly equip a car with aero effects. It agrees with basic physics when you think about it.

Take a model car, say a RC car with shocks. Press down on the rear. What happens? The front comes up, right? That is exactly what is happening when you put a giant wing on a car and hurtle it doen the road at high speeds. Add a front splitter....that is the pressure from your other hand now. What happens? Car is level.

At some point you are going to need to recognize when your cosmetic efforts are playing havoc with your handling. Granted, this is only for the really big aero pieces, not small and medium wings.

So, modify away, but be aware that some of the really huge pieces need to be added with scrutiny.
All very valid points.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
346 Posts
If you want to play around with aero stuff for looks that's fine..up to a point. If someone slaps a giant wing on the back of a 900hp car and does not have the matching/balancing splitter up front then the car can become unstable at great speeds (floating front end). If the car is never taken over 130mph, tha is probably fine. If you routinely make long passes in the 160mph plus range you are better off with nothing as opposed to a giant wing in the back. The huge wing is going to put an inordinate amount of force on the rear section of the car and the front will have a tendency to float.

As for lips. Yeah. lips are cool looking. I have a Strassentch lip that I bought purely for looks. I had a small AC Shnitzer wing out back that gave me a nice little bit of downforce...not enough for me to need a matching splitter.

But tack a giant 72 inch wing the size of a small Boeing on the back and you are going to upsept the apple cart. It is going to need a splitter up front to remain stable at any high speeds. This is according to articles dedicated to properly equip a car with aero effects. It agrees with basic physics when you think about it.

Take a model car, say a RC car with shocks. Press down on the rear. What happens? The front comes up, right? That is exactly what is happening when you put a giant wing on a car and hurtle it doen the road at high speeds. Add a front splitter....that is the pressure from your other hand now. What happens? Car is level.

At some point you are going to need to recognize when your cosmetic efforts are playing havoc with your handling. Granted, this is only for the really big aero pieces, not small and medium wings.

So, modify away, but be aware that some of the really huge pieces need to be added with scrutiny.
Bdave brings up some good points. Aero is something that the average enthusiast should not and can not do. If the car is a serious dedicated track car then I can understand adding Aero elements. The Aero game is its own beast. Properly designed Aero packages require tons of R&D and either a Wind tunnel or CFD. You need to consider effects such as Wake, Downforce, center of pressure, drag, etc. All these factors play a significant role in car performance. Introducing large amounts of downforce will cause the chassis to behave very differently and need to be reworked for the added loading plus the drag will hurt you at higher speeds. It is nowhere near as simple as down force rear offset by down force front either.

Buying a big rear wing and bolting it on does not constitute performance just like adding flashy stickers. A wing good for one car is not going to be set up properly on another car. Questions to ask would be how does the wing effect the cars Center of Pressure, lift to drag ratio, angle of attack, and how the aero loads translate/effect the chassis.

For drag racing its unnecessary and if you do Auto xing or low speed track days it wont help much either. Plus aero packages should be tweaked based upon the running conditions/course layout.

Also side note oem bodied cars will not benefit nearly as much from aero packages like wings/splitters etc for the money as they cost.

Sorry for the rant. The mentality of big wing = big performance bothers me and is a little *** imo.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,950 Posts
Asuka Widebody Nightstalker Edition + Big Fvcking Wing ... Why?!? Because Race Car! And Jason needs all the downforce he can get for that big booty on r comps...he'll be tracking it sooner or later once ppl stop wreaking it on/after test drives without permission.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
174 Posts
If you want to play around with aero stuff for looks that's fine..up to a point. If someone slaps a giant wing on the back of a 900hp car and does not have the matching/balancing splitter up front then the car can become unstable at great speeds (floating front end). If the car is never taken over 130mph, tha is probably fine. If you routinely make long passes in the 160mph plus range you are better off with nothing as opposed to a giant wing in the back. The huge wing is going to put an inordinate amount of force on the rear section of the car and the front will have a tendency to float.

As for lips. Yeah. lips are cool looking. I have a Strassentch lip that I bought purely for looks. I had a small AC Shnitzer wing out back that gave me a nice little bit of downforce...not enough for me to need a matching splitter.

But tack a giant 72 inch wing the size of a small Boeing on the back and you are going to upsept the apple cart. It is going to need a splitter up front to remain stable at any high speeds. This is according to articles dedicated to properly equip a car with aero effects. It agrees with basic physics when you think about it.

Take a model car, say a RC car with shocks. Press down on the rear. What happens? The front comes up, right? That is exactly what is happening when you put a giant wing on a car and hurtle it doen the road at high speeds. Add a front splitter....that is the pressure from your other hand now. What happens? Car is level.

At some point you are going to need to recognize when your cosmetic efforts are playing havoc with your handling. Granted, this is only for the really big aero pieces, not small and medium wings.

So, modify away, but be aware that some of the really huge pieces need to be added with scrutiny.
Another interesting aerodynamic comment I'd like to make is: Wings and such that alter airflow normally create more drag. If you are running for high speeds, they will slow you down overall.

The only reasons aerodynamic modification like wings makes sense from a performance standpoint is if you need more downforce for corners, or if the car is unstable without aerodynamic corrections.

Track cars should first have sticky tires before adding aerodynamics for cornering. IMO And, if you work the underbody you are likely to have much better results in terms of downforce.

If you have stability issues the road is likely to be long.

Other than that, personally I think wings make a car look ricey unless done well. Normally that means you need a body kit because the goofiest thing is a stock car (honda) with a wing that looks it came off a Boeing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
109 Posts
Has anybody here heard of Lumma? I really want to get the wing pictured below, but after touring Lumma's site, it doesn't give me a whole lot of options for ordering. Does anybody have any info on this company?

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,848 Posts
Has anybody here heard of Lumma? I really want to get the wing pictured below, but after touring Lumma's site, it doesn't give me a whole lot of options for ordering. Does anybody have any info on this company?

VERY sexy in CF!: http://bmwview.com/2011/08/13/bmw-6...n/bmw-6-series-by-lumma-design-new-rear-wing/

Fallon, i would contact all the sellers in the USA of Lumma body kits. One of them can inform you about, and possibly GET the wing you want. I would contact all of them including the ones on EBay that sell the M6 Lumma spoilers, just to see about getting a decent price too.
Google will be your aid here.

This Lumma wing is a nice piece. It is cosmetically pleasing and no doubt very functional. I bet it had some wind tunnel design knowing the Germans. Ask about which front LIP might compliment this wing the best. The lip will give you some nice downforce up front. You should notice a nice stability increase at speed. My little AC Shnitzter wing and Strassentech lip(both specific for my E48 M3 shape) may have looked cosmetic to some, but let me tell you, the performance they gave as a PAIR was significant. Its hard to explain until you experience it. Even lane changes and lateral moments are smoother. Good modern wings have side stabilizing functions added to their design. This can be seen by add on side pieces or simply the way the wing is shaped in your case.

Look into a REAR DIFFUSER that smooths out the air flow leaving the underside of your car. Well made diffusers can work wonders. most people dont buy the really nice ones because they are pricey...but worth it. Check this bad boy out!:
http://www.jlevistreetwerks.com/p84...-Diffuser-&-Fins-for-the-M6/product_info.html

The trick is sticking with German aero pieces designed specifically for your make and model car. Which is what you are doing so far. Cant go wrong.

Most wings will add drag and remove a few MPH from your terminal top speed. Unless you are competing in the Texas mile, the benefits from well fitted aero pieces far outweighs their added drag.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
109 Posts
VERY sexy in CF!: http://bmwview.com/2011/08/13/bmw-6...n/bmw-6-series-by-lumma-design-new-rear-wing/

Fallon, i would contact all the sellers in the USA of Lumma body kits. One of them can inform you about, and possibly GET the wing you want. I would contact all of them including the ones on EBay that sell the M6 Lumma spoilers, just to see about getting a decent price too.
Google will be your aid here.

This Lumma wing is a nice piece. It is cosmetically pleasing and no doubt very functional. I bet it had some wind tunnel design knowing the Germans. Ask about which front LIP might compliment this wing the best. The lip will give you some nice downforce up front. You should notice a nice stability increase at speed. My little AC Shnitzter wing and Strassentech lip(both specific for my E48 M3 shape) may have looked cosmetic to some, but let me tell you, the performance they gave as a PAIR was significant. Its hard to explain until you experience it. Even lane changes and lateral moments are smoother. Good modern wings have side stabilizing functions added to their design. This can be seen by add on side pieces or simply the way the wing is shaped in your case.

Look into a REAR DIFFUSER that smooths out the air flow leaving the underside of your car. Well made diffusers can work wonders. most people dont buy the really nice ones because they are pricey...but worth it. Check this bad boy out!:
http://www.jlevistreetwerks.com/p84...-Diffuser-&-Fins-for-the-M6/product_info.html

The trick is sticking with German aero pieces designed specifically for your make and model car. Which is what you are doing so far. Cant go wrong.

Most wings will add drag and remove a few MPH from your terminal top speed. Unless you are competing in the Texas mile, the benefits from well fitted aero pieces far outweighs their added drag.
WOW! That CF wing is amazing! I have looked into rear diffusers a bit, but not enough to make an informative decision. The only company I've looked at is Vorsteiner, and I do like theirs!

I've also been looking into front lips.. I saw quite a bit of good feedback on a company from Japan that sells on Ebay. I figure I might as well get a "practice lip" before I spend a solid 1,000+ on a real one ;) Thanks for the info! If you have any other recommendations let me know :clap:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,848 Posts
WOW! That CF wing is amazing! I have looked into rear diffusers a bit, but not enough to make an informative decision. The only company I've looked at is Vorsteiner, and I do like theirs!

I've also been looking into front lips.. I saw quite a bit of good feedback on a company from Japan that sells on Ebay. I figure I might as well get a "practice lip" before I spend a solid 1,000+ on a real one ;) Thanks for the info! If you have any other recommendations let me know :clap:
I do. I looked closely at the Vorsteiner diffuser. Its awesome. Get it. Period

There is NOTHING wrong with Ebay "training lips". My Strassantech lip was a Taiwan knock off of the real thing. Guess what? The knock offs often fit better thsn the high dollar German item. I recommend wet sanding and having your body man re CLEAR coat any CF coming from Taiwan. Its a good idea to get ALL your CF re cleared IMO. MY expensive Vorstiener CF license plate frame went all matte and then gummy from UV sun exposure. The Lumma wing in CF will probably be OK. But LOOK for the first signs of UV crazing and get it re cleared ASAP. Our automotive clear coats have great UV protection in them. I was shocked when one of my Vorstiener pieces crazed horribly in the sun.

Dont kid yourself. An inexpensive Ebay lip turns out to be VERY expensive once it is painstakingly FITTED and painted to match body color. There is a ton of labor and material that goes into fitting a lip, Vorstienr OR Taiwan knock off.

Find that good paint and body guy. He will take a 250 dollar Taiwan front lip and meld it to your car so you wont believe how nice it will look.
Its no "training" lip by the time you get done. You will find that you will probably want to keep it for as long as you can. Only in rare instances is the more expensive German version "better" than a well prepared knock off.
Remember, the prep work for the high $$ German lip is the same as for the knock offs. When they are done right, its almost impossible to tell.

As far as diffusers, I pay out the $$ for Vorstiener. A good diffuser is harder to do than a decent lip.

Find a body guy who can FIX fiberglass. My body guy has saved me a fortune by repairing my front lip rather than replacing. Repairing CF is pretty much the same as working with FG. My lip has been damaged several times, some by me(backing up and catching the CORNER) and some by road debris(truck tire retread pieces..ouch!)

Remember, the whole key to success in fitting aero or any body pieces is the skill of your paint and body man. They can make or break the project. It matters not how fantastic a quality piece you have, it must be fit and be prepared properly.

The best advice I can give you is to concentrate on finding that special guy (or gal) and sticking with them. MY paint and body guy makes a homeless guy look like he's from GQ. Scary. But he walks on water when it comes paint and any kind of body prep or repairs. He does painting on my wheels too, everything. Guys like like this are SO hard to find! And his prices are very very reasonable.
Hope u have a guy like that or can find one.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
346 Posts
I do. I looked closely at the Vorsteiner diffuser. Its awesome. Get it. Period

There is NOTHING wrong with Ebay "training lips". My Strassantech lip was a Taiwan knock off of the real thing. Guess what? The knock offs often fit better thsn the high dollar German item. I recommend wet sanding and having your body man re CLEAR coat any CF coming from Taiwan. Its a good idea to get ALL your CF re cleared IMO. MY expensive Vorstiener CF license plate frame went all matte and then gummy from UV sun exposure. The Lumma wing in CF will probably be OK. But LOOK for the first signs of UV crazing and get it re cleared ASAP. Our automotive clear coats have great UV protection in them. I was shocked when one of my Vorstiener pieces crazed horribly in the sun.

Dont kid yourself. An inexpensive Ebay lip turns out to be VERY expensive once it is painstakingly FITTED and painted to match body color. There is a ton of labor and material that goes into fitting a lip, Vorstienr OR Taiwan knock off.

Find that good paint and body guy. He will take a 250 dollar Taiwan front lip and meld it to your car so you wont believe how nice it will look.
Its no "training" lip by the time you get done. You will find that you will probably want to keep it for as long as you can. Only in rare instances is the more expensive German version "better" than a well prepared knock off.
Remember, the prep work for the high $$ German lip is the same as for the knock offs. When they are done right, its almost impossible to tell.

As far as diffusers, I pay out the $$ for Vorstiener. A good diffuser is harder to do than a decent lip.

Find a body guy who can FIX fiberglass. My body guy has saved me a fortune by repairing my front lip rather than replacing. Repairing CF is pretty much the same as working with FG. My lip has been damaged several times, some by me(backing up and catching the CORNER) and some by road debris(truck tire retread pieces..ouch!)

Remember, the whole key to success in fitting aero or any body pieces is the skill of your paint and body man. They can make or break the project. It matters not how fantastic a quality piece you have, it must be fit and be prepared properly.

The best advice I can give you is to concentrate on finding that special guy (or gal) and sticking with them. MY paint and body guy makes a homeless guy look like he's from GQ. Scary. But he walks on water when it comes paint and any kind of body prep or repairs. He does painting on my wheels too, everything. Guys like like this are SO hard to find! And his prices are very very reasonable.
Hope u have a guy like that or can find one.
Just out of curiosity do you know how much Downforce or what the Lift to drag is for your car? or whether these companies advertize these numbers?
Im just curious
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,848 Posts
Just out of curiosity do you know how much Downforce or what the Lift to drag is for your car? or whether these companies advertize these numbers?
Im just curious
The original thrust of this thread has petered out and its morphed to this aero discussion as happens many times. Sorry to be so off topic if anyone is offended. But I will address your questions..very GOOD questions, BTW:

You dont. Also, many of the wings are adjustable for angle of attack. SO drag and downforce can be changed instantly with a screw driver and now electronically in the high end GTC wings.

But it is common sense to a large degree. A small area Schnitzer wing should be pretty happy with a modest lip like the Hammon or the Strassentch. We are talking very little drag and gaining an amazing amount of down force for such a tiny wing. There are only a very very few E46 specific wings. I made a point of seeking them out. The AC shnitzer, actually the Truner pure Carbon Fiber copy was by far the best of any small wing for the E46.

As far as the large GTC wings,I happened to go with APR. You need to trust your brand. APR is one of the top brands for wings, they had a matching splitter, and a nice Gurney Flap for the wing.

If you want to be really anal you can use ONLY components from the same company. Try to ascertain they are tested out to be matching companions, like the AC Schnitzer wing mated with the AC Schitzer front lip. You need to be talking to tech guys in the USA or Germany. I think staying brand specific is much more important twhen the ero pieces get to the really BIG sizes like my APR GTC wing. I wanted that mated with an APR designed splitter.

But to be honest, small wing mated with a modest lip works pretty well as a formula. We did some various position/angle of attack changes until we got the most stabilty...very unscientific yet very effective. The whole process was painless and the results were amazing to us. VERY noticeable improvement at every speed. The faster, the better!

Now, you start hanging big 67" GTC style wings off the back you better be matching them with a splitter with adjustable turnbuckles in front. I used APR for BOTH my car specific WIng and Car specific splitter. APR does the major portion of R&D by offering two fairly well mated components that you can install in good confidence.
Final tuning, however, is left to the customer. That tuning for the large aero pieces can take a lot of time and be quite daunting. You have wing height, wing angle of attack.

The entire splitter can be moved OUT or IN under the car and the turnbuckles adjusted for the splitter angle of attack.

APR did not offer their dive planes at the time, so I bought a set by Brooks Racing that happen to be extremely similar...dual dive planes, no curve, minimal drag. Very innovative design.

That is a lot of adjustments. Fortunately I have an entire shop behind me that is helping me at the track set up my dual TC Klines, camber. caster etc and all aero functions. The owner is a long time racer and what he doesnt know he knows the guys to ask for help.

My car is lacking a really GOOD diffuser with several nice size fins. I only have the modest Vorstiener model. People discount the effects from a well designed diffuser. I dont. Its on the list.

Tuning aero is like tuning anything else. When you get it just right, there is nothing that feels so smooth and so great. GTC size aero pieces CAN take a car well into the next level of handling and grip, essential at times with a 800+RWHP track beast.

Hope this answered your question.

On a final note. its funny to see how companies like AA approach aero with their real race cars. I see wings cobbled up from God know what and splitters cut out with a jig saw from flat sheet stock! LOL. And dive planes that look like real crap and super draggy, yet these cars make it around the track somehow and win. I have to wonder if they win because of or in SPITE of the areo work LOL.
I didnt get the impression a whole lot of wind tunnel testing took place with any of their aero pieces.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
9,927 Posts
Ladies and gents,

I moved this very useful info from Jason's thread and created a new one. I didn't want it getting lost in the other thread since there is very good info. You guys can continue to build in here for other member to see. :thumbsup:
 
1 - 20 of 40 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top