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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Performance Japanese cars vs German (primary BMW M cars). well my friend's saying that why buy a car that keeps going to the dealer for minor and major fixes all the time (which means that cars are poorly built), when you can buy something as cheap as Civic SI and going to Honda S2000, WRX SI, or EVO, and and high as Acura NSX and have better reliability, in some cases better performance etc. and all of this with out all the HIGH tech. technology thats unnecessary.......(DSC, SMG, etc.)
 

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///M cars are very reliable. It's not very often that you encounter problems with newer ///M cars. Ask him why he would buy a slow car with a crappy interior when he can buy an ///M car. All of the cars he listed are slightly slower than M3's and a lot slower than M5/M6's.
 

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My wife drives an 01 Civic, and I drive an 02 M3. I worked for a Mazda dealership once, and have driven most cars in production (I also worked for a Maserati Dealership). The build quality on a BMW is FAR superior to most Japanese cars, to include Nissans. The only cars that are as good are Lexus, and those have as much technology as the Kraut cars, and are more similar to German cars than they are Japanese cars.
You can buy those cars listed, but the interiors suck on most of them and those high performance cars are pretty low on the reliability totem pole. The NSX and S2000 are no where NEAR as reliable mechanically as a Civic. That's common sense due to design.
As for technology, ask him why so many Asian car companies are installing Electronic stability controls and traction systems? It's because they mean safety and handling and control. My M3 handles better in the snow with DSC than my wife's FWD Honda Civic. How do I know? It snowed again today and the M3 was more sure footed with the traction control system (DSC).
The AWD systems in Subarus and Mitsubishis and others were all developed in the image and shadow of Audi's Quattro system. I can go on and on. But I've made my point.
 

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Somewhat related...

I drove my mom's car this weekend on an errand. It's a 2002 Sentra SE-R. It was like I went back 8 years in technology and fitment. The ride was terrible, loud, and it shifted like my old Wrangler. This car is the same year as mine, 10k less miles, and was purchased new and driven by... well, an old woman. Of course, I told her not to get a Nissan for any reason, but she did.
 

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In my short time on this planet Ive owned A Supra, Nissan Maxima, Subaru, And a Lincoln LS. Ive always been a big fan of the higher end German cars but it was always limited to spectating. I had NO idea how good a car could really be until I got in to my 04 M3. None of my past cars could touch it in all the areas the BMW shines. Sure the Supra may take it straight line but not on a track. My maxima had four doors but cant, and wont, ever come close to the performance numbers or styling of my M3. I thought my Lincoln LS was a fantastic car with a great balance of performance and luxury. To Lincolns credit, its the best balance of any car thats ever left their plant. The Subi had my M3 in traction but thats the ONLY place it has it. There isnt a single solitary Japanese car, Lexus included, that can match the level of refinement, the performance capability, the practibility, or the styling of an M3. She has it all! Or is it a he...Im not sure yet.
 

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Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
In my short time on this planet Ive owned A Supra, Nissan Maxima, Subaru, And a Lincoln LS. Ive always been a big fan of the higher end German cars but it was always limited to spectating. I had NO idea how good a car could really be until I got in to my 04 M3. None of my past cars could touch it in all the areas the BMW shines. Sure the Supra may take it straight line but not on a track. My maxima had four doors but cant, and wont, ever come close to the performance numbers or styling of my M3. I thought my Lincoln LS was a fantastic car with a great balance of performance and luxury. To Lincolns credit, its the best balance of any car thats ever left their plant. The Subi had my M3 in traction but thats the ONLY place it has it. There isnt a single solitary Japanese car, Lexus included, that can match the level of refinement, the performance capability, the practibility, or the styling of an M3. She has it all! Or is it a he...Im not sure yet.
yeah, this is very true. and even my friends can agree to this. BUT....he is a strong believer that if a car in NOT reliable then why bother buying it. the company itself (BMW) cannot stand behind the car and make it with quality.

and yes after owning 2 Nissan Maximas 1995 (w/ 165k miles) and 1998 (w/ 120k miles) both running as good as new with that milage and had only oxygen sensors and one starter replaced, i think my M3 will be on the junk yard by 170k miles with major problems. (at 38k miles it already had issues)

....same goes for Lexus SC300-SC400, and for Acura Integra......cars can run forever

and Maximas VQ engine is THE ONLY engine in top 10 egnine awards in US since 1995 to present
 

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everytime when i need to get my car serviced my dealer gives me these japanese cars. why buy with your money when you can drive them for free?
 

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Sure cars made in Germany require little more maintenance than their Japanese counteparts, but its not too bad. I take pride in my vehicle. I bought BMW for a reson, and I am actually looking forward to caring for that car. I am a car person and a driver. Japanese cars have no character to me.

And if you have the extra $$ then get Porsche. Porsche has beaten even Lexus in the recent JD Power stats (correct me if I'm mistaken but either way its pretty close) and in terms of performance....yea there is no substitute:excited:
 

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I've owned just about everything and my BMWs are as reliable as any other card that I have owned. Just look at the number of vehicles that Toyota has recalled in recent years. It happens.
 

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i've driven a lexus for awhile, and the maintainence isn't as much, but the parts are still expensive.. Beside I always said to myself "you pay to play."
 

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tell your friend his argument is retarded.

does reliability=how good a car is? no. how often do f1 cars need to be fixed? multiple times per race. how many times can they use the same engine? less than the fingers on your hand.

that being said, german cars (including m cars) are not terribly unreliable. i see many e36 m3s driving around, even e30 m3s.

i'm also not sure what your friend is talking about with the technology portion. as others have said, variations of traction control such as dsc is not something so complicated and faulty that it needs to be fixed. furthermore, relatively new technology like smg wears a clutch less than a normal manual transmission.

i'd also like to see how those sti's or evo's are running with 100k+. running an engine under high pressure for long periods of time is not something that helps engine longevity.
 

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if you are talking about the M in particular then you should know this...
yea those other cars will run forever but the M3 is a highly strung motor. for a small 6 with such a high compression ratio to be putting out the numbers and performance that is it, its not hard to understand why these cars wont run forever.
 

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Simple answer to this argument. If your friend is soo sure that Japanese cars are more reliable than German cars and that they run forever, ask him one simple question:

When's the last time you saw a 1982 BMW 3-series, now when is the last time you saw a 1982 Civic?
 

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Discussion Starter #15
thanks all. he is kinda quiet now after seeing that S54 is a winner engine since 2001 till present time in Internation Engine Awards.
 

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There is no comparing the interior of the M3 to your friend's list of cars. Can you even get leather on a WRX? Obviously there are other cars that are faster or can be easily (cheaply) made faster than the M3. I think most of us made the purchase decision based on the whole package.

Reedo
I like the pic of your car in the snow with the SSR Integras. Yours is the only other M3 I've seen with these wheels. I recently got a set and painted 'em black. Here's a pic. Sorry for the off-topic comment.
 

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