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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Its the newest addition to the fleet, 2003 325i, automatic steptronic, with 140k on the OD.

I rebuilt the DISA flapper, and put new headlights in it. DISA rebuild solved the slapping noise and cold start issues. Idles smoothly and revs in park with no issues and NO active codes with PA Soft, just the first 3 at the top of the list in the pic were there. I put tags on it today and took it out for the first time since I got it.

All was well until I flooded the pedal to get on the highway. She bouged and would not go above 4k -- and I mean held right at 4k like it was programed to. Then I let off the throttle slowly, as my foot came up it was like magic, hit the sweet spot at a little less than half throttle and she dropped down gears and took off hauling the mail.

I can repeat this perfectly every time when I mash the throttle to the floor. Makes no difference if I am in automatic mode or manual shift mode. When I got back I hooked up the laptop hoping to see something with PA Soft. There were only 3 shadow codes when I left (top 3), but these new codes showed up as "shadows" during the run, number 4 and down (see pic).

Been reading threads for hours and see folks talking about the "step down" switch in the throttle pedal. But no one talks about whether they go bad, or the symptom if they do go bad. Something else, when I was done rebuilding the DISA I did the "vacuum test", held my thumb on the vacuum port to see if it would hold the flapper open. It held it for a moment and then it bleed off really slow. So I have that in the back of my mind.

My questions are;

1. Will a DISA still work correctly if it does not hold the flapper closed for long when you test it with your thumb? or am in in for a new DISA?

2. Will a bad throttle pedal kick down switch cause this symptom? If so, how is it tested?

3. Do the extra shadow codes from the maiden run tell a different story?

Any guidance would be appreciated.
 

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I would start with the simple things first.

Forget out the O2 sensor temp codes, these are often in most of these cars even when they do not have problems.

The current code O2 sensor controller bank 1, deviation too great, rich deviation is actually a Lean code!! Typical issues with language translation as well as semantics. Is the glass half empty or half full.

While PA Soft may be a good tool, I would put it away for now and actually get OBDFusion and Log the events as you can recreate them.

The shadow codes of each cylinder spark duration being too short is also a flag for overly Lean conditions.

I would also check the butterfly valve in the rear muffler, make sure it is OPEN when the engine is not running, this may be stuck closed??

I would question the fuel pump, you have plenty of cars you can swap one in if you want to, but if they are still $115 for a Siemens/VDO from FCPEuro, it is a no brainer.

Once you get closer to figuring out what is going on, go visit RRT in Sterling, VA and have the update the DME. They are pretty good if you tell them just what you want, they should only charge $100 for this service, I have sent a few other forum members there and they have been happy with their service and prices. BMW screwed up the ignition timing Maps in most of these cars and they will be a DOG when you jump on the throttle if not in first gear and the engine does not immediately spin past 3000 RPM, any heavy throttle below 3000 RPM in 3rd gear and higher, the car is a dog.

Again, you should be able to see timing problems if you look carefully after Logging with OBDFusion. It may take a few attempts at limiting the PID's monitored and a few runs, but this is usually easy to see once you know what is going on.
 

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I would start with the simple things first.

Forget out the O2 sensor temp codes, these are often in most of these cars even when they do not have problems.

The current code O2 sensor controller bank 1, deviation too great, rich deviation is actually a Lean code!! Typical issues with language translation as well as semantics. Is the glass half empty or half full.

While PA Soft may be a good tool, I would put it away for now and actually get OBDFusion and Log the events as you can recreate them.

The shadow codes of each cylinder spark duration being too short is also a flag for overly Lean conditions.

I would also check the butterfly valve in the rear muffler, make sure it is OPEN when the engine is not running, this may be stuck closed??

I would question the fuel pump, you have plenty of cars you can swap one in if you want to, but if they are still $115 for a Siemens/VDO from FCPEuro, it is a no brainer.

Once you get closer to figuring out what is going on, go visit RRT in Sterling, VA and have the update the DME. They are pretty good if you tell them just what you want, they should only charge $100 for this service, I have sent a few other forum members there and they have been happy with their service and prices. BMW screwed up the ignition timing Maps in most of these cars and they will be a DOG when you jump on the throttle if not in first gear and the engine does not immediately spin past 3000 RPM, any heavy throttle below 3000 RPM in 3rd gear and higher, the car is a dog.

Again, you should be able to see timing problems if you look carefully after Logging with OBDFusion. It may take a few attempts at limiting the PID's monitored and a few runs, but this is usually easy to see once you know what is going on.
He had a inpa cable but it was broken so he ordered a new one. He can do the update
 

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From the code that came up, I'm guessing fuel pump is struggling or there is a huge vacuum leak somewhere.

All kickdown does is when you floor it, it downshifts to the lowest possible gear. Just because you don't press it doesn't mean the car shouldn't go any more than 4k. You can feel when you're pressing it, at least I can. It's a bit springy feel


Although shadow codes aren't current, they do help. With the spark errors, I would make sure the battery is not dead and that the spark plugs are fine.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I would start with the simple things first.

Forget out the O2 sensor temp codes, these are often in most of these cars even when they do not have problems.

The current code O2 sensor controller bank 1, deviation too great, rich deviation is actually a Lean code!! Typical issues with language translation as well as semantics. Is the glass half empty or half full.

While PA Soft may be a good tool, I would put it away for now and actually get OBDFusion and Log the events as you can recreate them.

The shadow codes of each cylinder spark duration being too short is also a flag for overly Lean conditions.

I would also check the butterfly valve in the rear muffler, make sure it is OPEN when the engine is not running, this may be stuck closed??

I would question the fuel pump, you have plenty of cars you can swap one in if you want to, but if they are still $115 for a Siemens/VDO from FCPEuro, it is a no brainer.

Once you get closer to figuring out what is going on, go visit RRT in Sterling, VA and have the update the DME. They are pretty good if you tell them just what you want, they should only charge $100 for this service, I have sent a few other forum members there and they have been happy with their service and prices. BMW screwed up the ignition timing Maps in most of these cars and they will be a DOG when you jump on the throttle if not in first gear and the engine does not immediately spin past 3000 RPM, any heavy throttle below 3000 RPM in 3rd gear and higher, the car is a dog.

Again, you should be able to see timing problems if you look carefully after Logging with OBDFusion. It may take a few attempts at limiting the PID's monitored and a few runs, but this is usually easy to see once you know what is going on.
I'll see about getting OBDFusion today, I have TorqueLite and I'm guessing it should work with the same wireless ELM OBDII wireless interface I use with TorqueLite.

I didn't know there was a butter fly valve in the exhaust -- I check it.

My Son's 325i has a new fuel pump in it, if need be I can test with it.

I have flashed new versions to an EGS before and my new K+CAN cable came in the mail yesterday, my old one was not old, but it was not staying connected like it should and I bought a new one.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 · (Edited)
From the code that came up, I'm guessing fuel pump is struggling or there is a huge vacuum leak somewhere.

All kickdown does is when you floor it, it downshifts to the lowest possible gear. Just because you don't press it doesn't mean the car shouldn't go any more than 4k. You can feel when you're pressing it, at least I can. It's a bit springy feel


Although shadow codes aren't current, they do help. With the spark errors, I would make sure the battery is not dead and that the spark plugs are fine.
My fist guess was fuel pump while I was driving it, then I dismissed that thought because it feels more throttle position sensor being bad on a FORD (oops I said the F word). Almost like the entire drive train knew you wanted passing gear, but the computer didn't get the signal from the pedal in the deep push position.

As if the pedal sends the signal at half throttle, but not at full throttle, and the intake throttle body goes WOT without the computers knowledge. If I stay below half throttle the car shifts through all gears correctly, and slowly comes up to speed. However, when you want passing gear its not there and the engine tops out at EXACTLY 4k until you get out of the throttle to a point where it seems like it produces a signal again -- but you never get the passing gear kickdown.

Gas starvation is possible. It felt like a bad secondary injector pump on a 4 barrel carb, when you hear it sucking air through the wide open butterfly but the fuel is not added and it bouges down, actually slowing down the car and it will not increase speed until you get out of the throttle to close the secondaries and run only on the primaries.

But then again, its like you forgot to connect the vacuum advance hose during your V8 tune-up and you feel like an idiot on your first test run because the timing doesn't advance.

So my first thought was gas starvation, but knowing there is no carb, my thoughts went to -- the car doesn't know where the pedal is beyond half throttle point.

I have not pulled the plugs on this one yet, it did have a bad DISA and I have no idea how long the PO drive it like that. Its runs so darn smooth at idle I didn't think the plugs were fouled -- but they could be. The battery came with the car, no signs of problems, and I see it charges at 14.1 under load with TorqueLite on during operations. I have a new AGM batter in another 325i I can drop in to take that thought out of my head. I does not feel like its a loss of spark or coil breakdown issue because it holds at 4k like its a rev limiter until you get back under half throttle.

I am off to work, I'll have another look at it this evening.
 

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What codes are you getting? The DME will throw codes for the pedal assembly if one of the 2 position sensors goes whacky. The DISA won’t necessarily cause your symptoms, but a bad DISA will impact performance.

RRT is a top notch shop. Also, try www.bimrs.org to find a shop in your area.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
What codes are you getting? The DME will throw codes for the pedal assembly if one of the 2 position sensors goes whacky. The DISA won’t necessarily cause your symptoms, but a bad DISA will impact performance.

RRT is a top notch shop. Also, try www.bimrs.org to find a shop in your area.
I didn't get a chance to work on it this evening, there was an accident on my way home and I stopped to help.

These are the only codes I see so far.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I would start with the simple things first.

1. Forget out the O2 sensor temp codes, these are often in most of these cars even when they do not have problems.

2. The current code O2 sensor controller bank 1, deviation too great, rich deviation is actually a Lean code!! Typical issues with language translation as well as semantics. Is the glass half empty or half full.

3. While PA Soft may be a good tool, I would put it away for now and actually get OBDFusion and Log the events as you can recreate them.

4. The shadow codes of each cylinder spark duration being too short is also a flag for overly Lean conditions.

5. I would also check the butterfly valve in the rear muffler, make sure it is OPEN when the engine is not running, this may be stuck closed??

6. I would question the fuel pump, you have plenty of cars you can swap one in if you want to, but if they are still $115 for a Siemens/VDO from FCPEuro, it is a no brainer.

7. Once you get closer to figuring out what is going on, go visit RRT in Sterling, VA and have the update the DME. They are pretty good if you tell them just what you want, they should only charge $100 for this service, I have sent a few other forum members there and they have been happy with their service and prices. BMW screwed up the ignition timing Maps in most of these cars and they will be a DOG when you jump on the throttle if not in first gear and the engine does not immediately spin past 3000 RPM, any heavy throttle below 3000 RPM in 3rd gear and higher, the car is a dog.

8. Again, you should be able to see timing problems if you look carefully after Logging with OBDFusion. It may take a few attempts at limiting the PID's monitored and a few runs, but this is usually easy to see once you know what is going on.
In reference to above:

1. Forgotten....

2. Understood.

3. I now have OBD Fusion. Got it his morning on my android phone and still learning how to use it, technology challenged :)

4. Understood.

5. Looked and I don't have an exhaust butterfly valve. I also watched videos, and searched links with pictures to be sure I know what it was I was looking for, and this 325i doesn't appear to have been built with one.

6. Note taken. My son and I installed a new fuel pump in his 2001 325i, so its there for testing if needed.

7. I have the software and cable to flash the DME if needed, but made a note about RRT and its nice to know there is someone close (within 60 miles) that knows what they are doing -- when I don't :) . Just to be clear, heavy throttle on this is not just a "dog", it actually bouges down and there is dramatic speed reduction until I come out of the throttle halfway. Only then will it increase slowly, as if the car has no passing gear down shift.

8. Still learning OBD Fusion and its logging capabilities. Requires a bit of selections in the menu that I am not yet sure of -- I will get there with practice.

Last night I took it for a 10 mile local fun, during that run I picked up a P0171 error and cleared it mid trip -- it did not come back on the return trip.

Weather just cleared and I'm back at it this afternoon.
 

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Would you be able to record what happens? And what's going on with the ms42? Are we gonna work on it?
 

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Read the PDF in this thread on Logging with OBDFusion: http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=1097893

A KEY item that is needed, ANYTIME the SES/CEL/MIL comes on BEFORE you clear the code(s), gather the Freeze Frame data and save it. On OBDFusion is is easiest to run AND save a Diagnostic Report with the engine warm an at idle.

Info on Diagnostic Report in the PDF above.

Need to know under what conditions the Lean code was triggered, idle or cruise. If cruise it is almost always going to be either a MAF and/or fuel pump problem.

At idle most often vacuum leaks or could be a soft failing/under reporting MAF.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Would you be able to record what happens? And what's going on with the ms42? Are we gonna work on it?
The 2000 323ci is on hold for a few days while I settle things with the 2003 325i.

I put tags on the 2003 325i and this "full throttle" issue is all I have left to do with it and then its becomes a family daily driver.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Read the PDF in this thread on Logging with OBDFusion: http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=1097893

A KEY item that is needed, ANYTIME the SES/CEL/MIL comes on BEFORE you clear the code(s), gather the Freeze Frame data and save it. On OBDFusion is is easiest to run AND save a Diagnostic Report with the engine warm an at idle.

Info on Diagnostic Report in the PDF above.

Need to know under what conditions the Lean code was triggered, idle or cruise. If cruise it is almost always going to be either a MAF and/or fuel pump problem.

At idle most often vacuum leaks or could be a soft failing/under reporting MAF.
Thank you Sir, I am reading now.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Pulled the accelerator pedal out of my son's 325i and tried it -- no difference. It was a long shoot and took just a few minutes to try it.

Have to try the fuel pump next. Could be a fuel regulator, of the filter. I pulled the back seat up and the factory clamp has been replaced with a hose clamp, so it looks like someone has changed it since factory.

Read a number of threads in this forum and others and the problem has been reported more than once -- but people abandon the threads and there has been no resolutions posted by others.
 

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Just for the sake of completeness, check the backpressure of your catalytic converters. I had a similar symptom on my 330Ci and it turned out to be a badly blocked converter.
 

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I know you can buy a tool, or perhaps borrow it from your local parts store (I built one). You remove the upstream O2 sensor and thread in this tool, which has a hose and a pressure gauge on it. Start the car, run it up to 3500-4000RPM and note the pressure indicated on the gauge. If it is more than about 2PSI, you have a blockage downstream. In my case, I read almost 7PSI at 4000RPM. I learned this from a very helpful guy on another forum.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
I know you can buy a tool, or perhaps borrow it from your local parts store (I built one). You remove the upstream O2 sensor and thread in this tool, which has a hose and a pressure gauge on it. Start the car, run it up to 3500-4000RPM and note the pressure indicated on the gauge. If it is more than about 2PSI, you have a blockage downstream. In my case, I read almost 7PSI at 4000RPM. I learned this from a very helpful guy on another forum.
A tool like this one?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/VSE953-Sea...874505&hash=item2391fab44c:g:HZAAAOSwpvZZ~TwK
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 · (Edited)
I changed the fuel pump with a new one, because I had it in the garage and it was simple enough to do -- no change.

It runs smooth and strong, but once you get spirited and mash the pedal down it bouges down and holds steady at 3500 to 4k and will not rev past it, nor will it down shift. Left of the pedal to half throttle and she'll go again.
 

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Try the same thing with the DSC disabled and then use the Steptronic feature to manually shift. To disable the DSC press and hold the DSC button for like 10 seconds as I recall, if I am wrong on the length of time to hold it, someone will chime in.

I do not even have access to the E46 as it is 1100 miles away for now.
 
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