E46 Fanatics Forum banner
  • Hey everyone! Enter your ride HERE to be a part of September's Ride of the Month Challenge!
1 - 20 of 31 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
81 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)

I have seen a number of posts and remarks with some confusion about what exactly Flex Fuel means. I decided to make a quick thread to help clarify everything for both the ProEFI and E85 in general.

E85 Basics:
  • Ethanol is an American-based product that both stimulates local argricultural economy and is a very clean-burning fuel.
  • E85 has a 30% lower energy content than regular gasoline and therefore requires 30% more fuel to operate the same.
  • E85 has a stoichometric level of 9.6:1 compared to Gasoline's 14.7:1 stoich level.
  • E85 will have a less efficient fuel economy due to the increased fuel needs (roughly a 15-25% drop in fuel economy).



Why use E85 in performance applications?
  • NEVER buy Race Gas again!! 3.0L 2JZ motors have made well over 1200whp on E85 with the potential to make more, especially with larger displacement engines.
  • Torque! Each turbo car we've dyno'd with E85 ALWAYS makes substantially more usable torque making for a great street car.
  • Spool! Expect your current turbo setup to spool ~500rpm's FASTER than it currently does.
  • E85 burns cooler than Gasoline further adding to the power increases over Gasoline.
  • Most importantly....it's CHEAP!! E85 literally has the capabilities of C16 Race Gas. With E85, you essentially have C16 in the tank for ~$3.00/gallon.

What about changing ethanol contents?
  • Yes, ethanol content fluctuates and can be harmful if you have an EMS that doesn't have a true Flex Fuel integration. The ProEFI DOES have this so you're completely safe!
  • In addition to the fluctuations that can occur, a "winter blend" is often switched over to E70 (70% ethanol content). This is done so because the higher content of E85 would be much more difficult for vehicles to have an ideal cold start-up.

ProEFI Flex Fuel Integration
  • Ignition, fuel, and cold/warm start-up maps are adjusted in real-time based on ethanol content as seen with the ProEFI Flex Fuel sensor. This is also displayed directly on your CAN Gauge or CAN Display.
  • ProEFI iBoost includes a 5-position switch to choose your 5 pre-determined boost levels (1 being the lowest or wastegate, 5 being the highest allowed given current ethanol content). The ProEFI will AUTOMATICALLY adjust your maximum boost level and corresponding lower boost levels to give you the safest boost level based on the real-time ethanol content.
  • ProEFI firmware allows for an additional 400% increase in fuel for cold start-up maps to GUARANTEE you'll always have enough fuel to start your car in the cold weather (See quote below for more info).
  • The internal ProEFI wideband adjusts in real-time for the fluctuating stoichometric measure of your current fuel mixture.



Link below to .XLS file to determine stoichometric level for different blends of Ethanol and Gasoline:



Additionally, here is a quote from last year's winter season. While I was late at SP one night, I had to start an E85 powered vehicle in -2 degrees Farenheit!

As many people know, E85 cars are incredibly difficult to start in cold weather. This is due to the fact that E85 stops vaporizing at approximately 55 degrees Farenheit and it only gets more difficult as the temperature drops further. Fuel is ignited at start-up by these fuel vapors. For comparison, Gasoline (only about 15% present in E85) does not stop vaporizing until -45 degrees Farenheit which is why it does not have issues starting in colder weather.

With the ProEFI's built-in E85 controls, you are able to add an additional 400% of fuel in your start-up fuel map in addition to firing all injectors simultaneously. Basically, the ProEFI allows more than enough fuel, the Supra got plenty of that fuel, but I was frickin freezing!!

Reid
Original thread:
http://www.spracingforum.com/forums/showthread.php?298-ProEFI-E85-Supra-started-in-2-degree-weather!!






 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,169 Posts
Does anyone know if there's a company that ships e85/98? I really don't want to travel 120km to buy some. I'm in Toronto, Canada btw.
Not sure how it works in Canada, but if you have a race fuel supplier, those guys can usually get you 100% Ethanol or E98 quite easily. Just order the drums from them.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
768 Posts
Where do plan on driving 120km to? the UPI station in Guelph where I said sells it? they wont sell it to you unless the cars VIN has e85 compatible... Sure you could fill up your work van or truck with 150L but thats not very much, I asked them if they would allow for filling my truck and a few extra jerry cans they said no... I even called head office they said nope lol...my buddys dad also owns a UPI in my town they cant even get me it either...Only place I know if is in ottawa, 600km from us... we could do a big run one day and get like 15-20 drums.... does that mean the pro efi setup is going in your car Fab?
Does anyone know if there's a company that ships e85/98? I really don't want to travel 120km to buy some. I'm in Toronto, Canada btw.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,009 Posts
Where do plan on driving 120km to? the UPI station in Guelph where I said sells it? they wont sell it to you unless the cars VIN has e85 compatible... Sure you could fill up your work van or truck with 150L but thats not very much, I asked them if they would allow for filling my truck and a few extra jerry cans they said no... I even called head office they said nope lol...my buddys dad also owns a UPI in my town they cant even get me it either...Only place I know if is in ottawa, 600km from us... we could do a big run one day and get like 15-20 drums.... does that mean the pro efi setup is going in your car Fab?

Ask him about the car hes buying :evil:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
533 Posts
Great post Reid! :thumbup:

Does anyone know if there's a company that ships e85/98? I really don't want to travel 120km to buy some. I'm in Toronto, Canada btw.
I was buying drums of e85 from Sunoco. So, yes anyone that supplies race gas should be able to hook you up with ethanol.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
768 Posts
LoL I know what car, its Chads green machine...I believe its his friend buying it or are you buying it for yourself Fab? I know he said in a prior post he was going to take some parts for sure, thats why I asked if he was taking the proefi :)
Ask him about the car hes buying :evil:
Ya in the states its different we have like 4-5 places in Canada that I know of that sells it and only 1 of those places will sell to me and Fab without "VIN check" not sure why they do it, its just the law apparently is what I am told lol...
Great post Reid! :thumbup:



I was buying drums of e85 from Sunoco. So, yes anyone that supplies race gas should be able to hook you up with ethanol.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
533 Posts
LoL I know what car, its Chads green machine...I believe its his friend buying it or are you buying it for yourself Fab? I know he said in a prior post he was going to take some parts for sure, thats why I asked if he was taking the proefi :)

Ya in the states its different we have like 4-5 places in Canada that I know of that sells it and only 1 of those places will sell to me and Fab without "VIN check" not sure why they do it, its just the law apparently is what I am told lol...
Really? That is a crazy law. You guys north of the border have to go through some crazy **** to enjoy your cars.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,046 Posts
Where do plan on driving 120km to? the UPI station in Guelph where I said sells it? they wont sell it to you unless the cars VIN has e85 compatible... Sure you could fill up your work van or truck with 150L but thats not very much, I asked them if they would allow for filling my truck and a few extra jerry cans they said no... I even called head office they said nope lol...my buddys dad also owns a UPI in my town they cant even get me it either...Only place I know if is in ottawa, 600km from us... we could do a big run one day and get like 15-20 drums.... does that mean the pro efi setup is going in your car Fab?
I don't think VP fuels sells e85. Not sure what I can do. If all goes well, I'll be able to run e85 this summer too. Just not over 900rwhp like SOME people:p
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
768 Posts
VP doesnt sell it I called (called a lot of places lol) VP were the ones who told me about the place in Ottawa, is the place you were saying 120km away the Guelph station?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,074 Posts
Sorry if this was answered in another thread, but is there a difference between ethanol and methanol as a main fuel? I can get methanol for less than $3.00 a gallon.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
337 Posts
Sorry if this was answered in another thread, but is there a difference between ethanol and methanol as a main fuel? I can get methanol for less than $3.00 a gallon.

YES Huge difference lol...

Ethanol and Methanol are totally different... Every car that runs on straight methanol is almost always a straight race car.... Methanol has a stoichometric level of like 6.4 (from some website lol)... So figure going from Gasoline to Ethanol is like from Ethanol to Methanol (roughly, but it probably is even more intense).. Top Alcohol Funny cars run on Methanol if that tells you anything...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
337 Posts
Any benefit running straight E98 vs E85 or adding some E98 to E85?
More Ethanol means more Fuel is needed... E98- is 98% Ethanol 2% gas, so it is higher octane than standard E85... Problem is you will get even worse mpg, harder start-ups and you need the fuel system because over conventional E85 youll need roughly 10% more fuel (give or take).. But it will make a little more power and spool a little bit quicker from what i have seen.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,074 Posts
YES Huge difference lol...

Ethanol and Methanol are totally different... Every car that runs on straight methanol is almost always a straight race car.... Methanol has a stoichometric level of like 6.4 (from some website lol)... So figure going from Gasoline to Ethanol is like from Ethanol to Methanol (roughly, but it probably is even more intense).. Top Alcohol Funny cars run on Methanol if that tells you anything...
Well that blows. I have enough meth to last 5 years.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,169 Posts
For added Clarification, Methanol is wood based, and Ethanol is vegetation (corn, or sugar typically). Methanol is MUCH more corrosive, but cools insanely well, and has an Ocane equivelant of around 160. Ethanol is like Methanol...just less of everything (basically). :)
 
1 - 20 of 31 Posts
Top