Additional information - Fuel issues

I have the Dynojet Widebandcommander (Wide Band O2 sensor) installed and am staying around 12.5 to 13 AFR all the way to redline. If fuel pressure (or volume) were a factor, wouldn't the AFR start to move towards the lean side??? Thanks again for your responses. Technik or Mr. Paddleshift, any thoughts?? By the way, NICE MDAC Mr. PaddleShift :bow: :bow: :bow:

 

thekubiaks, thanks for the compliments! Was reading your first post when you posted a second time....

So you do have a fuel pressure gauge. What about FPR?

Note that pressure and volume flowrate (aka mass flowrate) are closely related. If your fuel pressure @ a certain RPM meets the exact ESS spec, then it should be at a certain flowrate that ESS has designed for.

Let's say you have a FPR, then a FPR's job is to, well, regulate outlet pressure. So regardless of how powerful your fuel pump is, correct me if I am wrong, your FPR should regulate the outlet pressure at a pre-set level. Of course, if you have a RRFPR. it will output an increasing pressure linearly. I will let Technik explain the RRFPR a little better. I personally have zero experiences with it.

Now, if you don't have a FPR, I take it that the remapped ECU is controlling the fuel pump to work at a certain pressure level, in which case, the max pressure is limited by the spec of the fuel pump. But then again you measured the fuel pressure and it meets ESS's spec. So somewhere along this equation is not right. Perhaps the fuel pressure gauge is off? Or injectors are faulty? Test the flowrate of the injectors, if you have the chance to.

I hope I am making sense here. :eeps:

 

Have you asked this question with Hans at ESS?

 

Have you asked this question with Hans at ESS?

Yes,
It took a while before he responded but it was vague.
+++++++
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That is very strange. All your readings looks like they are ok.
Did you ever dyno your car on this dyno before the install.

How many mileage is on the car?

How does the car feel to drive?

Regards,

Hans Kirkerod
ESS Performance Products AS

 

My guess is that the ESS kits are a little low on power, at least lower then they claim.
A friends E39 530 only puts out ~300 on the crank, so that car is down 35hp as well.
As i recal from the dyno he had done this one also drops as it nears redline.
This car had the ESS kit installed when it had 12000km on it.
Maybe you are chasing a ghost here?

 

My guess is that the ESS kits are a little low on power, at least lower then they claim.
A friends E39 530 only puts out ~300 on the crank, so that car is down 35hp as well.
As i recal from the dyno he had done this one also drops as it nears redline.
This car had the ESS kit installed when it had 12000km on it.
Maybe you are chasing a ghost here?

Thanks for the reply... Interesting results from the E39.

 

Here are pictures i took of the dyno just now.
The run was done in 5:th gear (1:1) with 98 Octane (Euro) fuel.

Sorry about the bad quality but i only had my phone with me.
If you would like to speak to the owner of this car then feel free to PM me and i will arrange it.

ESS did this install so it´s not likley that the install is not properly done.

 

Something VERY Interesting

Tsaros,
According to your dyno sheet, your rear wheel horsepower was 184.8 KW. That converts to 247.721 rear wheel horsepower. Since you have the 530i, and I have the 330i, we have the exact same motors. Look at my dyno sheet... See the similarity?? I need to get on the phone to ESS. My RWHP = 248.2 and Torque = 223.7. Where is OUR missing horsepower?? Regards...

 

I thought that you where interested of the dyno
I read your old posts and fuel and install can be removed as possible causes (ESS explenation to you before).
As i mentioned before this dyno was done with 98 Octane fuel and ESS did the install(at their location in Norway).
Im quite convinced that the kits are overrated in terms of output.
If you hear anything from ESS please let me know, and i will do the same.

Tsaros,
According to your dyno sheet, your rear wheel horsepower was 184.8 KW. That converts to 247.721 rear wheel horsepower. Since you have the 530i, and I have the 330i, we have the exact same motors. Look at my dyno sheet... See the similarity?? I need to get on the phone to ESS. My RWHP = 248.2 and Torque = 223.7. Where is OUR missing horsepower?? Regards...

 

Any news regarding this?
I have email ESS but have not gotten an answer yet.

 

Any news regarding this?
I have email ESS but have not gotten an answer yet.

I emailed them about the fact that you and I got the same horsepower and torque. The dyno sheets eliminated any claims from them that my car had a problem since they installed your S/C and our cars are basically identical. Nope, they quit emailing me. I think the dyno's tell the story....... Regards...

 

It sounds as if they have given up on this, we however have not.
We will drive up to them and speak to them in person if that is what it takes to have this sorted out.
If you want i can keep you up to date on how we are doing.

 

do you guys have ESS superchargers or ASA TM1-12?? (because now they are using ASA SCers)

R.

 

It sounds as if they have given up on this, we however have not.
We will drive up to them and speak to them in person if that is what it takes to have this sorted out.
If you want i can keep you up to date on how we are doing.

I would very much appreciate it if you could keep me advised on what you find out from ESS. I will be happy to send you 5 complete sets of dyno runs that I have done over the last two years. THANKS.

 

do you guys have ESS superchargers or ASA TM1-12?? (because now they are using ASA SCers)

R.

We (tsaros and thekubiaks) are discussing the original Vortech style supercharger not the newer Rotrex based S/C.

 

Alan:

Long time no talk! Couple of things I would like to touch on. The post above is incorrect, ESS went to ASA superchargers not Rotrex. Rotrex did not pass their tests. The main reasons for them going to ASA is 1) ASA GmBh is in Germany aka closer to ESS, 2) they are smaller aka cfm comes on faster by design, smaller volute, easier to IC, and 3) they are better suited for the boosted cfm of the 3.0 engines (stays in it's efficiency islands longer).

Also, It is driving me nuts that everyone calls the Infinitas kits (or the modifed Infinitas kits from RennSport/Technik) "ASA kits". ASA does not make supercharger kits, they only make hardware (i.e., the compressor and IC end caps). Someone else has to make the rest, like ESS or Infinitas and that is how the kits should be referred to.

Anyway, the reason I really wanted to post is that I am a bit confused by your postings regarding your car and it's low power output. You car and Blake's (my first Project Car) are identical, '01 330i with VT kits, and his is screaming fast. Did you ever remove and seal off the DISA valve, then dyno the HP? Your dyno does not appear to be switching to the short intake runners.

 

Alan:

Long time no talk! Couple of things I would like to touch on. The post above is incorrect, ESS went to ASA superchargers not Rotrex. Rotrex did not pass their tests. The main reasons for them going to ASA is 1) ASA GmBh is in Germany aka closer to ESS, 2) they are smaller aka cfm comes on faster by design, smaller volute, easier to IC, and 3) they are better suited for the boosted cfm of the 3.0 engines (stays in it's efficiency islands longer).

Also, It is driving me nuts that everyone calls the Infinitas kits (or the modifed Infinitas kits from RennSport/Technik) "ASA kits". ASA does not make supercharger kits, they only make hardware (i.e., the compressor and IC end caps). Someone else has to make the rest, like ESS or Infinitas and that is how the kits should be referred to.

Anyway, the reason I really wanted to post is that I am a bit confused by your postings regarding your car and it's low power output. You car and Blake's (my first Project Car) are identical, '01 330i with VT kits, and his is screaming fast. Did you ever remove and seal off the DISA valve, then dyno the HP? Your dyno does not appear to be switching to the short intake runners.

I stand corrected on the Rotrex / ASA S/C, I am not as familiar with the newer ESS Supercharger. As for the DISA valve, are you referring to the flapper valve in the exhaust, if so, the answer is YES. I also replaced the resonance valve because it was a suspect, turned out it wasn't the cause. As for the term DISA, no one, including ESS has ever referred to a valve as such, please elaborate. I am still trying to get out to SD to see Blakes car, I am looking forward to his dyno results. Regards :str8pimpi

 

No, not the exhaust flap (that just controls exhaust noise and is silly that BMW put it there).

The DISA valve is the Differential Intake System valve. It is mounted by two T35 torx screws and a wire plug to the driver's side of the intake manifold. It is not a "resonance valve". It is the flap that switches the intake runner lengths at about 3800 rpm. By looking at the dyno, it appear to not be switching over to the short runner lengths to make the high rpm HP.

Hence why I say either the valve, the wire carrying the signal, or the signal origination is not working and to remove the DISA, seal the hole, and dyno the car. It won't make any low end torque, but above 3800, you should see the HP come back.

 

If the valve should be removed wouldent ESS have done that when they installed the kit on the 530?

 

Oh no, you don't leave it out permanently, just take it out to test the system. Removing the valve and covering the hole forces the intake to use the high-rpm shorter runners. Then we can see if that is why he is not getting his 3800+rpm HP...

 

No, not the exhaust flap (that just controls exhaust noise and is silly that BMW put it there).

The DISA valve is the Differential Intake System valve. It is mounted by two T35 torx screws and a wire plug to the driver's side of the intake manifold. It is not a "resonance valve". It is the flap that switches the intake runner lengths at about 3800 rpm. By looking at the dyno, it appear to not be switching over to the short runner lengths to make the high rpm HP.

Hence why I say either the valve, the wire carrying the signal, or the signal origination is not working and to remove the DISA, seal the hole, and dyno the car. It won't make any low end torque, but above 3800, you should see the HP come back.

Todd,
I know exactly for sure what you are referring to. What you call the DISA, ESS called the resonance valve. I had a discussion with Hans and Asbjorn about this valve. I can't remember exactly what the BMW terminology is but I replaced that valve and tracked down the exact wire fron the ECU that sent the signal to the valve. I confirmed that the valve signal was sent to the valve at ~ 3800 RPM's and then (on the dyno) observed that the valve physically moved around 3800 RPM's. That is when I eliminated that valve as a possible HP suspect. I still think it is heatsoak.... Blake's dyno will tell me alot..... Thanks for the info... :str8pimpi

 

Yes, do let me know how it goes. It just doesn't make any sense and you even drove my car before you got your kit... I'm interested in what is going on.

 

Yes, do let me know how it goes. It just doesn't make any sense and you even drove my car before you got your kit... I'm interested in what is going on.

Thanks for your interest Todd, did you happen to catch the fact that a guy named tsoros on this thread has a 530i with the same ESS S/C (installed in Norway by ESS) and his dyno results were within 1/2 RWHP of mine. That is very interesting.... tsoros is going to go to Norway and have a conversation with them... wish I could be there..... I do think the new ESS S/C is a much better design but I'd like to see some dyno runs...you can understand my skepticism.. Regards...

 

Not at all, I understand with the problems you have had. I have driven Blake's car before the aftercooler, but after he fixed the fuel problem and it screamed. It is unfortunate that he didn't get a chance to dyno it before but I'd like to see the aftercooled numbers.

By the way, I dug this pic up, this is a really old dyno of my first car before the fuel pump/filter/regulator was replaced and when the intake was loose (we didn't find it until after this dyno shop closed up):

It is definitely lower on power, but easily whopped on M3s once back on the street... go figure... maybe the vortech doesnt like dynos... the gap in the lines is where the RPM sensor was loose on the coils.

 

Back from a trip up to ESS in Norway.
After a run on their Dyno it was clear that the car was infact missing power.
Hans at ESS did some searching and diagnostics and found why the car was low on power, a broken tube caused it.
This tube was a factory one so no blame on ESS.
Im not sure what the function of it was, but it is mounted close to the fuelrail.

Below are two pictures of the broken tube.

And here is a run on the Dyno when the tube was replaced by Hans.
The car still drops above 6krpm, but i have seen that on many other dynoruns so im guessing that is normal.
The car seems to be boosting a bit earlyer then before, but that could be me imagening things as well
Happy to have the car fixed, and it was a beautiful day in Norway.