This feeler post is fine to gauge interest, but know that any for sale post must be in Classifieds or from an official Vendor account.

 

I plan to install the Camry RTABs in my E46. So naturally, I'm interested in this kit. The price you quoted is the price for the kit? If so, then that's very reasonable.

 

I'm interested, depending on the final price. Your current estimate is reasonable IMHO. I would prefer to have the bushing turned down rather than enlarging the RTAB mount.

 

I has updates. Obtained a rear trailing arm and removed its bushing to do more measurements because when I did mine my measurements were fairly quick reference ones to make sure it will work. This time I cleaned the surface of the RTAB opening to remove the rust by spraying it with little bit of rust converter and using a 180 grit sand paper. Made sure not to over sand it by checking the surface for the original manufacturing tooling marks -visible in the photos. I also ordered more Moog bushings to measure the OD diameter and the inner journal length, as it was the only challenge I had last time when installing them onto the vehicle. Realized there is a 1.05mm difference between the OE bushing inner shaft and the Moog shaft.
My measurements:
Rear Trailing Arm hole for bushing : 60mm
Moog Bushing OD : 60.25mm
Moog Bushing Shaft Length : 50mm
OE Bushing Shaft Length : 48.95 (49mm)

I think its best to not have the Moog bushing machined down because it will have an impact on its reliability because there is no way to hold the inner shaft to actually machine it safely. The method to opening up the RTAB bracket is to use the OE bolt and nut and un-doing the nut to open up the bracket a bit so the new bushing slips right in. As for the OD, I thought it may be beneficial to include a sanding flap wheel which is what i used to clean up the trailing arm hole to get the rust and oxidative aluminum material left from the OE bushing out of there.

I will be taking pictures of how to open up the RTAB bracket next to post here for future reference.

How do you guys feel about this, I know you guys mentioned you want to have the Moog bushing turned down, but it seems the interference is much less than I thought. Issue with turning the OD down is if I have it turned down the tolerances may make it not be a good force fit interference and could just pop out in cornering. My own vehicle has been fine without turning down the OD and the bushing has worked fine through summer and winter in Canada (-20c weather here sometimes). The feel of the vehicle before and after the modification was very drastic which is why I feel this would be a good mod for everyone, specially daily driven vehicles for the sake of reliability and lack of harsh driving issues caused by poly RTAB bushing. Let me know how you guys feel.

I am thinking of placing an order with a local machine shop for 20 sets. Two ID sleeves and one installation ring to be in each set.

 

Thanks for the update. I'm still interested in the kit.

 

Or you could just buy spherical rtabs made for the car

They aren't $500

I installed them myself, turner

 

Sorry for the delays guys! I have gotten quotes back and the best one is 42$ USD/set if I order 20 sets (plus shipping to your door). Would just need to know if you think 20 people would be interested? Maybe start up a sign up sheet? How you guys feel about it?

Thanks for your input wasp9166, few factors to consider, first is the fact that Moog bushings can be purchased and replaced at any location because they are normal aftermarket components, if one side fails you can just buy anther one from any part store and just swap the inserts, vs if turner bushings need replacing, they may have moved to the next version of their product or just stops making their bushings all together, or out of stock when you need them, then would have to get another set costing hundreds of dollars. Another factor is the cost of tuners is still 2.3x higher than the Moogs plus bushing insert & install tool set at roughly $100 for a complete package. Last thing is tuner do not actually make the bushing part of the RTAB kit they sell either. They make the anodized aluminum outer section to match the off-the-shelf bushing they have selected and they also use an insert in their bushing to match the factory bolt OD.

 

I'm in. I'm also following this thread. So when they're ready to ship, just post payment instructions and I'm on it. Hopefully shipping to USA won't be too much of a hassle.

Thanks again for taking the time to develop this product for us.

 

interesting work.

so let me see if I’m understanding it now. the Moog bushing OD does not need to be turned down to fit now?
the internal diameter of Moog bushing to use the stock bolt needs this sleeve. but it’s not made to extend further in length, that it fits correctly. or is the sleeve also longer and cupped like a spacer to fit in the stock bracket?
is the pressing tool ring pressed into the trailing arm to position depth and also locks in place to keep bushing from moving/squirming or just used to install?

is the kit: (2x) bolt sleeves, (2x) centering ring cups or (1x) centering ring cup?
thanks.

 

interesting work.

so let me see if I’m understanding it now. the Moog bushing OD does not need to be turned down to fit now?
the internal diameter of Moog bushing to use the stock bolt needs this sleeve. but it’s not made to extend further in length, that it fits correctly. or is the sleeve also longer and cupped like a spacer to fit in the stock bracket?
is the pressing tool ring pressed into the trailing arm to position depth and also locks in place to keep bushing from moving/squirming or just used to install?

is the kit: (2x) bolt sleeves, (2x) centering ring cups or (1x) centering ring cup?
thanks.

Great questions! Happy to clarify!

The moog bushing does not need any modifications to fit in. There is a chamber on one side of it just to make install easier. You could just sand the edge of that chamfer if install is difficult but not necessary if set up is good to press it.
The internal diameter of the moog bushing is too large for the OE bolt, the sleeve is just to take up the space so OE bolt could be used. The sleeve is the same length as the bushing, in full contact with the OE bolt.
The ring is just to set the install depth of the moog bushing and must be removed once the bushing is installed. There is only one ring provided because its just an install tool.

The kit will be 1x install ring (to be taken off once install is done and used on the other side then kept in tool box for later of replacement of bushing is needed later in life).... and 2x sleeves to be inserted into the moog bushing.

Do you guys think that 20 sets is not too many?

I much appreciate your enthusiasm M.Blacktree!

 

Would these fit m3 RTA? If so I'm in

 

Same dimensions, IOW the upgrade for the sedan is to use the M3 bushings.

 

Yes, all E36, E46, X3, Z4 share the same bushing.

 

The RTAB bushings have gone through quite a genesis over the years.

In the beginning there was one bushing for a 316 all the way up through a M3! And one piece.
Shortly after the M3 received a stiffer durometer bushing.

Not until about 2000 did the split outside casing come along and very much stiffer durometer. Under compression (split casing installed) were they able to survive a aggressive track day without the aid of limiters.

 

Thanks for clarifying!

For purpose of installing a Moog bushing, they all receive the same Moog bushing and would equally benefit from the upgrade.

I think the part numbers are 33326770817, 33322228153 and 33326757885 which are interchangeable.

 

Just FYI, the Moog RTABs for the Camry are under $25 each on Amazon.

Link: https://www.amazon.com/Moog-K200786-Control-Arm-Bushing/dp/B00HRHTOQ0/

This is an OEM replacement part for a very common vehicle (the Toyota Camry). So it won't be going away anytime soon.

 

This was the original design:

It was updated a long time ago, early in the E46 platform to the newer split shell design:

Funny thing is that every now and then, I come across a car that should NOT have the (original from factory) the older version. My only guess is that they had a plethora of the older ones lying around and used them?

The earlier version was notorious for having the center break away from the rubber. Making the trailing arm move all over the place, depending on load, acceleration, deceleration and cornering forces. Entertaining, to say the least.

 

This was the original design. It was updated a long time ago, early in the E46 platform to the newer split shell design:

when you say they changed the design early. are you saying they did the split casing during factory production? i’d swear they didn’t do that until much later. and what about the M3?
anyhow, don’t want to highjack this guys thread. my bad
*edit looks like first versions went to 95-2005. 9/02-7/05 had a change that retrofitted. and a third 1/05 on. looks like as they used on different models they used as retrofits??

 

Good people of the forum, order is placed with a local supplier and they will be making 20 sets in total. Will provide an update once available. As indicated by Bali, I think I would have to make another thread in the for sale section later on.

 

As indicated by Bali, I think I would have to make another thread in the for sale section later on.

Yes, any for sale thread MUST be in Classifieds.
When you make this new thread to offer these for sale, be sure to link to this one for reference.
PM me if you have questions or need help.

 

I am also interested in the kit

 

I’d be interested in a set. If you’re in the Toronto area we could meet up and save the shipping fees.

Cheers, E46Envyy

 

I’d be interested in a set. If you’re in the Toronto area we could meet up and save the shipping fees.

Cheers, E46Envyy

Yes, I am in Toronto. Are you planning on taking it to a shop to get the bushings instaled or doing it yourself? It be fun to take some pics of your install process if you are doing it yourself. I have a bushing press kit I can bring as well which worked for me in the past. Also, if you have not bought the Moog bushings, I can give you mine for same amount I payed for them, one less item in the basement full of car parts for me!

 

Hi, I just got the parts today! Took some quick pics from checking the parts fitment and it is a good fit.
Since the surface finish on the inside of the RTAB is so important for installation, I was thinking of supplying a sanding flap wheel with the kit. What are your thoughts on that? Attached picture of the flap wheel for reference.

 

My only thought is that a 40 grit flap disc is relevantly coarse. Could be used as step #1 to remove the bulk of rust. Keep in mind some will go at it harder than others. This leaves the bore really rough. makes it harder to press in a bushing.
We use these flap discs all the time, they're great. However you want to remove the rust and not make a rough surface (sanding flap scratches galore) on the inside.

We get ours from Grainger:

Mounted Flap Wheels - Grainger Industrial Supply

When it comes to Mounted Flap Wheels, you can count on Grainger. Supplies and solutions for every industry, plus easy ordering, fast delivery and 24/7 customer support.

www.grainger.com

Good work.

 

How much extra would the sanding discs add? I mean for a full plug and play kit more or less I can see it becoming a popular alternative and possibly lucrative down the line. I personally wouldn't need it as I can sand at home and I know what I'm doing. Also I wouldn't need the disk as I have easy access to AutoZone and as a member there the 20% discount is nice. How did the kits turn out? Did you try to mock test fit them by any chance?

 

How much extra would the sanding discs add? I mean for a full plug and play kit more or less I can see it becoming a popular alternative and possibly lucrative down the line. I personally wouldn't need it as I can sand at home and I know what I'm doing. Also I wouldn't need the disk as I have easy access to AutoZone and as a member there the 20% discount is nice. How did the kits turn out? Did u try to mock test them by any chance?

roughly $6-8 dollars -have to get accurate quotes. Flap wheel is not like sand paper disks or plain paper where after couple of minutes of use its done. I have been using the same couple of flap wheels for 6-8 months and I do some furniture fabrication on the side, so fairly moderate use and still lots of life left in them. Sanding disks wear out really quickly and is not suitable for this application because inner surface of the RTA is the target.

Looked up the Autozone website and could not find flap wheels in their product range. HD and Lowes have them but most are around $10-15 range. I think it would make sense to have it included, what you do guys think?

I did test the bushing and press tool adapter by by trying the ID with the bolt, trying the OD of the Moog bush and the press tool with the OD/ID of bushing and ID of RTA. Measured to make sure they made it to my drawings. I have used this supplier before for work and their work is good.

 

Seeing those rusty RTAs makes me so glad my cars have only enjoyed southern climates. I would not want to work on rusty cars!

 

Seeing those rusty RTAs makes me so glad my cars have only enjoyed southern climates. I would not want to work to rusty cars!

I removed the RTA and bracket from a junked car in February and it had snowed the previous day. Most of the bolts were seized as well. My black oxide impact sockets turned into rust oxide impact sockets.

 

I'm OK with having a flap wheel in the kit.

Edit to add: I have a hydraulic press and a wheel bearing press. So I can try both methods and see how it goes. If you're interested, I could also shoot some video and put it on youtube.

 

my opinion is lacking an merit, but...

Selling the plain machined kit for fitting the bushing as one option and also selling a kit to include the bushing and the wheel for those who are in more rural areas would maybe be a good idea.

Some poeple are far away from modern civilization while some are like me with access a loaded garage and also to a dozen parts stores within a 10 mile radius. This is whi i suggest offering your kit in two different ways. Just the machined parts and also the complete kit with the wheel.

either way ou have my interest. some set backs but this is on my list of to-dos

and I will order a bare set from you next pay period if you atill have some

 

yeah maybe just have it as an “add on” option.

 

Sounds good.