[burntoutrubber]

While not the subject of torrid debate (like sensors on M56 SULEV radiators ), there is a decent amount of misinformation and confusion about the differences among the variants of the ZF 5HP19 5-speed automatics.

These transmissions are found from around 1995 to 2003 on a range of BMW models, notably 323/325/328/330 up to the 2003 model year. They are also found on all SULEV models until the end of the e46 run and are alternatively referred to as A5S325Z-TT (325), A5S 325Z - TU (330), etc.

Tl;dr: If someone lists a ZF 5HP19 BMW transmission used on eBay or Facebook and says it is for 325/330, they are wrong. There are two different transmissions, and it is worth it to understand how.

Many thanks to @jjrichar for his AWESOME DIYs

How to distinguish

The 5HP19, which was also used in Porsche, Audi, and Volkswagen applications, has many variants among the brands, but four main variants for the E46. The non-BMW ones are definitely not interchangeable as they have fundamentally different housings, valve bodies, and other componentry. The BMW models can be distinguished by looking at the green tag on the right rear of the transmission body starting with the printed digits "1060" followed by:
005 - 323
008 - 320
009 - 325, 525, Z4 (I think)
010 - 330, 530

What is Different

As should be clear, these are not the same transmissions. I am not fluent enough in the 320 and 328 to comment, so I am going to cover only 325 v 330. I am going to refer to them as "009" for the 325 and "010" for the 330.

1. They will both bolt on to either engine. The bolt pattern, harness/connectors, shift cable, flex plate, output flange and cooler lines are identical, so if you have (or swap in) a B30 engine you can bolt the 009 transmission on and it will run and drive.
2. The gear ratios are identical across all four variants. Since the actual Ravigneaux gearset in all variants are the same part, they all have the same gearing
3. The clutch plates, cylinders and steels vary across variants. The 010 has a different "C" clutch cylinder and has four friction/steels versus 3 for 005/008/009. All other cylinders, clutches and steels are the same between the 009 and 010 models. 005/008 has different cylinders and steels for other clutches (if you care )
4. The torque converters are different. Each variant has a different torque converter. This makes sense as the engines each have different torque.
5. The 010 (330) torque converter lockout clutch is different. The 010 variant has a different lockup clutch in the torque converter. Since this clutch is controlled by the valve body, it also has a different valve body. Specifically, the front upper valve body has a piston that controls the torque converter. So different piston, different upper front valve body.
6. The EGS software is different. The 010 and 009 EGS are different part numbers and run different software

"C" Clutch steels and friction discs

For illustration, here is a picture of the steels from an 010 (left) and an 009:

As you can see, the 010 has an extra disc, though all of the discs are thinner to fit the overall transmission cavity. This provides 33% more surface area which presumably helps with handling the extra torque.

I ran an 009 with a b30 engine for two years, and the 009 C clutch steels (right) were the only steels that had to be replaced when I rebuilt. They were covered in burn spots throughout. Take what you want from that, but I believe that the extra steels play a role.

The ring on the left below is one of the 009 C clutch steels after 2 years mated to a b30 engine.

Torque converter and valve body

The lockup clutch in the Torque converter of the 010 is different. It is controlled by a piston in the upper front valve body. Interestingly, the casting for this valve body on all models is exactly the same and has the cast part number 1060327098. However there is a different part 1060327099 for the 010, and it can be distinguished by the very elegantly hand-engraved "99" on the casting. These photos are from a 1060327099 valve body, note the cast part number:

But it is actually an 099, because of this:

This threw me for a bit, as I kept opening 010 transmissions and finding parts with a cast part number for the 009. What I strongly suspect is that they needed a bigger flow for the 010 torque converter which meant overboring that chamber. Instead of casting a new part, they likely machined the existing part, created a larger piston, and hand marked those parts.

Here are a few images of the torque converter control valve pistons. The 009 piston is 10.2mm at the narrower part, and the 010 is 11.2mm at the same part, so the bore is 1mm larger for the 010 variant.

Here is the diagram of the upper front valve body and its function:

#2 in the diagram - the lockup control valve - is the piston in question, and it is different for the 010 (it is the same among 005/008/009). The housing, predictably, is also different. If you are curious how one finds that out, here is the section of the ZF parts catalog that shows it:

EGS Versions

The transmission control modules have the same form factor and connectors. However, the 325 and 330 modules have different part numbers and consequently different software versions.

325 - p/n 24607533602
330 - p/n 24607529020

B25-B30 swap

If you do a b25-b30 swap and want to keep the ZF transmission, then you have a few options:

1. Just keep the 009 transmission and 009 torque converter as many folks have done. It will bolt on, plug in, and start up, and you have the benefit of using the EGS (a.k.a. TCM, TCU or Transmission module) that came with your car and is matched to your VIN. The transmission is not matched to your engine, and I wouldn't recommend, but it is definitely the easiest path.
2. Get a matched 010 transmission and 010 torque converter. You have a bigger engine, it makes sense to get the proper transmission for it. However, you will need to either replace the EGS or change the software it is running (similar to changing the ECU to b30)
3. Do a "bespoke" upgrade. Open up the transmission, swap in an upper front body from an 010 and the "C" clutch. Buy a rebuilt 010 torque converter. Replace or recode the EGS.
4. Swap to a GM transmission

My experience

Why do I know this nonsense? Well, I swapped a b30 ZHP into my 2003 SULEV touring. I connected it to the existing 009 ZF auto, and it ran ... fine. It was never snappy, and I wasn't happy. Two years later, the transmission totally failed with the TC seized to the pump bearing.

I pulled the transmission to rebuild, and as I dug in, I began to learn what I was working with. I was rebuilding the “tower” of the 009 when I noticed that the "C" clutch pack steels were absolutely fried and unusable. I checked for part numbers in the ZF guide and discovered that the steels and cylinder were different parts from the 009.

I then paid $200 for an 010 transmission pulled from Pick n Pull, and harvested those parts. For no particularly good reason, I also rebuilt and installed the valve body from the 010.

I bought an 010 torque converter and installed everything (saga is in another thread). After a screwup (bad TC, I think) I got everything installed and it started driving beautifully until I reached cruising speed and it was awful. I did some more research and realized that I needed to recode the EGS (not done yet).

If I had to do it again, I would have:
1. picked up the 010 transmission and rebuilt it with new friction discs, seals and steels (not really that hard if you have experience with massive Lego sets)
2. picked up a reman 010 TC
3. recoded the EGS

If I had a daughter who was willing to deal with a stick, I would have done a 6-speed swap

 

[Bali]

Very nice write-up! This question has been asked but never answered with your level of detail. Thanks!

 

[burntoutrubber]

Very nice write-up! This question has been asked but never answered with your level of detail. Thanks!

Extremely painfully acquired knowledge...

 

[docnabimmer]

Another worthwhile Amazing endeavour!!!thank you

 

[burntoutrubber]

I have added a picture of the “burnt” steel after running an 009/325 ZF on a b30 engine.

here it is again :

 

[4aceman]

I have added a picture of the “burnt” steel after running an 009/325 ZF on a b30 engine.

here it is again :
View attachment 968299


I am a little confused by this post.

Was thinking of retrofitting

What was the condition of your ZF before the swap? How many miles did it have before and during the swap? Had it ever been serviced?

 

[burntoutrubber]

My ZF had 6k after the 330 swap. I drained and refilled the fluid and changed the filter at the time of the engine swap (2 years ago)

Before the swap it was not super-responsive, then the torque converter seized on the pump bushing and it failed at about 170k.

During the rebuild, I found the C clutches as above, but the other steels were perfect. I replaced all the friction discs - they all had grooves, but I figured I didn't want to open the tranny again! The gasket on the valve body was severely degraded.

 

[DBecker]

Thank you for posting this.

I had believed that the major difference was the torque converter, and that the clutch change was simply an update because of the D/G clutch pack reverse failure redesign.

My 5HP19 also had a input shaft sleeve bearing failure. It was after a 20 minute moderate speed hill climb so it might have been a low fluid issue, but I didn't have any prior issue with losing transmission fluid.

 

[burntoutrubber]

Thank you for posting this.

I had believed that the major difference was the torque converter, and that the clutch change was simply an update because of the D/G clutch pack reverse failure redesign.

My 5HP19 also had a input shaft sleeve bearing failure. It was after a 20 minute moderate speed hill climb so it might have been a low fluid issue, but I didn't have any prior issue with losing transmission fluid.

My understanding is that the clutches in the TC degrade, and the material passes through from the TC to the pump opening. Over time this leads to the TC seizing on the pump bearing, causing it to spin out. When that happens the fluid drains out the pump opening and the tranny stops transmitting.

 

[DBecker]

My understanding is that the clutches in the TC degrade, and the material passes through from the TC to the pump opening. Over time this leads to the TC seizing on the pump bearing, causing it to spin out. When that happens the fluid drains out the pump opening and the tranny stops transmitting.

I'm not seeing how that could be the cause.

The input bearing, the bearing for the torque converter and front bearing for the oil pump, is pressed into the pump housing. It's lubricated by the fluid leaking past (bleed-by) the gear pump faces. That's clean fluid since pump is drawing fluid through the filter, which presumably removes all of the chunks of debris and some of the fine particulates.

I can understand why the TC clutches are suspect. The rest of the transmission is pretty easy to tear down and inspect, but very few people are going to cut open a torque converter. They are opened for rebuild by putting them on a big lathe and cutting the welded seam. I can't think of an easy way to cut one open as a one-off. (OK, I am imagining clamping the bushing in a vise to act as a turn-table and using an angle grider with cut-off wheel.)

The best therory I've read is that the pressure relief solenoid valve jams in the valve body, resulting in high pressure and excess load on the pump. That is also what gets the blame for breaking the D/G clutch pack housing at the snap ring groove. But even that doesn't sound credible. Especially because the fix for that problem was simply cutting the rounded-edge groove a little further into the housing.

 

[jds2726]

Looking to install a 010 transmission in a 325Ci. Are there any differences in torque multiplication between the 010 and 009 transmissions or is it mainly a difference in durability for the added torque?

Mainly looking to see if i should get a 009 torque converter or run the 010 one mated to the B25.

 

[burntoutrubber]

Honestly, I have found it very hard to get a straight answer from suppliers. from the ZF catalog, the TC and the TC pressure control valve are different.

You should update the transmission module to the 010 coding.

 

[Sapote]

The 010 (330) torque converter lockout clutch is different. The 010 variant has a different lockup clutch in the torque converter. Since this clutch is controlled by the valve body, it also has a different valve body. Specifically, the front upper valve body has a piston that controls the torque converter. So different piston, different upper front valve body.

I understand the 010 needs a stronger TCC, but why should it need a different TCC controlling valve? It is not the fluid flow rate for the 010 to be higher than 009 as I don't think the 010 TCC has a larger piston than the 009, but needs a larger friction brake. Once the piston is pressurized to release the TCC then little fluid flow is needed. The valve also releases the TCC pressure to lock up the TC, and again, why it needs a larger valve for this? Maybe it is an update valve for 010 and 009?

 

[burntoutrubber]

I understand the 010 needs a stronger TCC, but why should it require a different TCC controlling valve? It is not the fluid flow rate for the 010 to be higher than 009 as I don't think the 010 TCC has a larger piston than the 009 but it needs a larger friction brake. Once the piston is pressurized to release the TCC then little fluid flow is needed. The valve also releases the TCC pressure to lock up the TC, and again, why it needs a larger valve for this? Maybe it is an updated valve for 010 and 009?

It is an excellent question and perfectly reasonable logic.

I started down this path when I saw the absolutely destroyed C drum steels in the transmission I rebuilt after swapping a 330 into my SULEV (M56 is b25). I checked the ZF parts list and saw that the 010 had 4 steels compared to 3 for the 009/8/5. I then went over the entire part list looking for any other components that had a different part number for the 010 model. There was the torque converter, the C drum steels, the upper front valve body, and the TC lockup piston in that valve body.

I first went to PnP to grab the upper front valve body from a 330. I pulled two, but both were cast with the part number for the 009 (1060327098). I assumed that maybe it was a change ZF made for the final years of the model, so I ordered one from ZF (and the TC control piston), and it also had the cast 1060327098. I then compared the TC control pistons for each of the upper front valve bodies. I had salvaged, and they were identical? I was very confused.

That was when I noticed that all of the valve bodies (2 from PnP and one from ZF) that were for/from an 010 variant had "99" hand-etched on the body. I presume they found an issue with the control piston flow and re-machined existing valve bodies with a larger bore, matched a new piston, and then scrawled "99" on them for identification:

When I pull the valve body from my current transmission (has the 098) I will compare the pistons. But here is an image of the 099 with the piston for the 010/330 ZF 5HP19:

 

[M.Blacktree]

This is a nice write-up. Thanks for posting.

This may be off-topic, but does anyone know if any aftermarket suppliers offer a 5-disc C-clutch pack? Also, are there any upgraded planetary gearsets available? I plan to increase the performance of my M54B30, and would like to beef up the gearbox a bit.

 

[Sapote]

does anyone know if any aftermarket suppliers offer a 5-disc C-clutch pack?

C brake or clutch? There is no C clutch.
The C brake has 6 disc -- 3 friction and 3 steel plates.

 

[M.Blacktree]

You're talking semantics. I'm referring to the 3-disc vs 4-disc clutches, as described in the OP. And I'm asking if there's a 5-disc. That refers to the number of friction discs.

 

[burntoutrubber]

I would contact Eriksson for the steels.
[email protected]
Or
800-388-4418

C brake or clutch? There is no C clutch.
The C brake has 6 disc -- 3 friction and 3 steel plates.

not sure if you read my post above, but that is not always the case. There are 4 steels in the 010 and 3 in the other bmw ZF variants. See the picture in the first post

 

[burntoutrubber]

This is a nice write-up. Thanks for posting.

This may be off-topic, but does anyone know if any aftermarket suppliers offer a 5-disc C-clutch pack? Also, are there any upgraded planetary gearsets available? I plan to increase the performance of my M54B30, and would like to beef up the gearbox a bit.

I am not aware of any upgraded planetary gear sets.

As an aside, I now have a spare upper front valve bodies of the 099 variety for the 330. One complete and one with just the 010 piston (transfer the rest from your existing as they are the same.)

 

[burntoutrubber]

Last night I reinstalled the 010 version of the upper front valve body in my 330 swapped wagon and it solved all of the lockup issues I was having. I was using the 009 transmission with the 4-disc C Cylinder and the 010 torque converter, but the 009 upper front valve body, and had terrible bucking when it tried to lockup, no 5th gear, and serious fluid burning.

When I swapped in the 010 valve body (part: 1060327099) and control valve piston (part: 1058327016), the problem instantly disappeared. I am now convinced the modified valve body and piston increases either flow or pressure to the torque convertor lockup clutches.

If you are doing a swap, I believe you must match the torque converter to the valve body - either keep the 009 torque convertor if you use the 009 tranny, or swap the transmission or the valve body to the 010 variant if you plan to use the 010 torque convertor.

the entire saga is documented here:

Transmission low fluid pressure after rebuild- SOLVED!

So I rebuilt a ZF 5HP19 with new clutches, seals, and steels. Mounted and filled it and it didn't work correctly. After a few tries, I am still not getting enough fluid pressure to make the transmission work, and I need some new ideas. While it could be the valve body (also rebuilt by me), I am...

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