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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I enjoy reading Consumer Reports because they are unbiased. This is especially true for their auto reviews. I was reading that the 0-60 time measured for the 330i automatic (with 225 hp) was 6.6 seconds (BMW lists it as 7.0 seconds with the automatic). In addition, I was reading a Car and Driver review of the 330i (225 hp) manual and they stated 0-60 was 6.1 seconds. Car and Driver also measured the 0-60 time for the 328i manual and it was 6.4 seconds. Therefore, in general, I assume the difference between the 330i manual and automatic is .5 seconds. I would assume that the difference between the 328i manual and automatic is also about .5 seconds, which would make the 328i automatic 0-60 times at 6.9 seconds.
 

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Lying, drunken cheat
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Uh, just making assumptions based on some numbers that Consumer Reports came up with says nothing. Besides, 0-60 is a bad measure of a car's overall acceleration performance.

The only way to accurately know how the auto 330/manual 330 and auto 328/manual 328 compare on paper is to take dyno charts and gear ratios and do the math yourself.

However, that said, you're in luck. I have a computer simulation which takes dyno results, gearing, weight, and aerodynamic drag (among a ton of other factors, like temperature, road gradient, driver skill etc) and calculates acceleration for a car with the values you've given. I put the numbers in for all the E46 3 series cars a while ago, but I'll do a new test post the results in a minute.
 

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A couple of years ago, the 3.0 litre engine was claimed to deliver 0-62mph in 5.9secs to 6.1 by Autocar & Motor magazine and also one other (I forget the name). Both magazines are well regarded.

The tests were on a 231BHP engine with a manual gearbox (transmission), under dry conditions and DSP switched off.
 

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Lying, drunken cheat
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Ok guys, enjoy. This is what the computer says will happen. Amazingly, the computer is extremely accurate based on what I've seen in real life at the track and in mags.

Oh, and before some idiot complains about the 14.9 1/4 mile time, let it be known that these cars are set up to be running stock street tires. The trap speed is still a very respectable (and realistic) 96.2 mph.

What I always find remarkably interesting about this engineering program is how close the estimated top speeds are to official BMW published specifications! Oftentimes within 1 or 2 mph...

<pre> PERFORMANCE COMPARISON ANALYSIS
-------------------------------

Selected Cars: 1. 2000 BMW 323I
2. 2000 BMW 328I
3. 2002 BMW 330I
4. 2000 BMW 328I AUTOMATIC
5. 2002 BMW 325I AUTOMATIC
6. 2002 BMW 330I AUTOMATIC

Car Number 1 2 3 4 5 6
--------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------
Time to Speed
0-30 mph.... 2.2 2.1 2.1 2.5 2.7 2.5
0-40 mph.... 3.9 3.8 3.6 3.9 4.4 3.5
0-50 mph.... 5.3 5.1 4.8 5.4 6.1 5.2
0-60 mph.... 6.9 6.6 6.2 7.1 7.9 6.7
0-70 mph.... 9.7 9.2 8.7 9.6 10.6 9.1
0-80 mph.... 12.1 11.4 10.8 12.1 13.4 11.4
0-90 mph.... 15.2 14.1 13.1 16.0 16.7 14.9
0-100 mph.... 19.8 18.3 16.9 20.2 21.9 19.0

Time to Distance
0-100 ft..... 3.1 3.1 3.0 3.3 3.4 3.3
0-500 ft..... 8.4 8.3 8.1 8.6 8.9 8.5
0-1320ft..... 15.5 15.2 14.9 15.7 16.2 15.4
@ mph .... 90.9 93.5 96.2 89.3 88.5 91.3

Top Speed.... 144 150 154 150 141 150


30-50 mph
2nd Gear..... 2.6 2.5 2.4 2.7 3.2 2.6
3rd Gear..... 3.8 3.8 3.7 3.7 4.7 3.6
4th Gear..... 5.6 5.5 5.4 6.7 7.8 6.6
5th Gear..... 7.4 7.6 7.4 9.9 12.5 9.8
6th Gear.....

50-70 mph
2nd Gear.....
3rd Gear..... 4.2 4.0 3.8 4.0 5.0 3.8
4th Gear..... 5.6 5.5 5.2 6.6 7.3 6.4
5th Gear..... 7.2 7.2 7.0 9.3 11.5 9.1
6th Gear.....
</pre>
 

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Bahn Burnah
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akhbhaat said:
Ok guys, enjoy. This is what the computer says will happen. Amazingly, the computer is extremely accurate based on what I've seen in real life at the track and in mags.

Oh, and before some idiot complains about the 14.9 1/4 mile time, let it be known that these cars are set up to be running stock street tires. The trap speed is still a very respectable (and realistic) 96.2 mph.

<pre> PERFORMANCE COMPARISON ANALYSIS
-------------------------------

Selected Cars: 1. 2000 BMW 323I
2. 2000 BMW 328I
3. 2002 BMW 330I
4. 2000 BMW 328I AUTOMATIC
5. 2002 BMW 325I AUTOMATIC
6. 2002 BMW 330I AUTOMATIC

Car Number 1 2 3 4 5 6
--------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------
Time to Speed
0-30 mph.... 2.2 2.1 2.1 2.5 2.7 2.5
0-40 mph.... 3.9 3.8 3.6 3.9 4.4 3.5
0-50 mph.... 5.3 5.1 4.8 5.4 6.1 5.2
0-60 mph.... 6.9 6.6 6.2 7.1 7.9 6.7
0-70 mph.... 9.7 9.2 8.7 9.6 10.6 9.1
0-80 mph.... 12.1 11.4 10.8 12.1 13.4 11.4
0-90 mph.... 15.2 14.1 13.1 16.0 16.7 14.9
0-100 mph.... 19.8 18.3 16.9 20.2 21.9 19.0

Time to Distance
0-100 ft..... 3.1 3.1 3.0 3.3 3.4 3.3
0-500 ft..... 8.4 8.3 8.1 8.6 8.9 8.5
0-1320ft..... 15.5 15.2 14.9 15.7 16.2 15.4
@ mph .... 90.9 93.5 96.2 89.3 88.5 91.3

Top Speed.... 144 150 154 150 141 150

5-60 mph, 1st
Gear Start... 6.7 6.4 6.0 6.9 7.6 6.4

30-50 mph
2nd Gear..... 2.6 2.5 2.4 2.7 3.2 2.6
3rd Gear..... 3.8 3.8 3.7 3.7 4.7 3.6
4th Gear..... 5.6 5.5 5.4 6.7 7.8 6.6
5th Gear..... 7.4 7.6 7.4 9.9 12.5 9.8
6th Gear.....

50-70 mph
2nd Gear.....
3rd Gear..... 4.2 4.0 3.8 4.0 5.0 3.8
4th Gear..... 5.6 5.5 5.2 6.6 7.3 6.4
5th Gear..... 7.2 7.2 7.0 9.3 11.5 9.1
6th Gear.....
</pre>
it's amazing how truely similar all the cars are, especially when taking in price comparisons.
 

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Lying, drunken cheat
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dbtheo said:
it's amazing how truely similar all the cars are, especially when taking in price comparisons.
As can be seen by the 0-100 times, the 330's real advantage comes in 3rd gear and beyond. Also note how the automatic version, in comparison, moves pretty well in the low gears, but really bogs down up top with the direct drive 4th and overdrive 5th gears. It's considerably worse in the 325 auto. That's why gearing is so important!

Compare the 50-70 mph times for 4th and 5th gear between the manual and auto cars to see what I mean.

The 330 auto isn't actually that much slower than the manual 328, especially 0-60 and in the 1/4.
 

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Just a Brand-wh0re Elitist
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akhbhaat said:
Ok guys, enjoy. This is what the computer says will happen. Amazingly, the computer is extremely accurate based on what I've seen in real life at the track and in mags.

Oh, and before some idiot complains about the 14.9 1/4 mile time, let it be known that these cars are set up to be running stock street tires. The trap speed is still a very respectable (and realistic) 96.2 mph.

What I always find remarkably interesting about this engineering program is how close the estimated top speeds are to official BMW published specifications! Oftentimes within 1 or 2 mph...

<pre> PERFORMANCE COMPARISON ANALYSIS
-------------------------------

Selected Cars: 1. 2000 BMW 323I
2. 2000 BMW 328I
3. 2002 BMW 330I
4. 2000 BMW 328I AUTOMATIC
5. 2002 BMW 325I AUTOMATIC
6. 2002 BMW 330I AUTOMATIC

Car Number 1 2 3 4 5 6
--------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------
Time to Speed
0-30 mph.... 2.2 2.1 2.1 2.5 2.7 2.5
0-40 mph.... 3.9 3.8 3.6 3.9 4.4 3.5
0-50 mph.... 5.3 5.1 4.8 5.4 6.1 5.2
0-60 mph.... 6.9 6.6 6.2 7.1 7.9 6.7
0-70 mph.... 9.7 9.2 8.7 9.6 10.6 9.1
0-80 mph.... 12.1 11.4 10.8 12.1 13.4 11.4
0-90 mph.... 15.2 14.1 13.1 16.0 16.7 14.9
0-100 mph.... 19.8 18.3 16.9 20.2 21.9 19.0

Time to Distance
0-100 ft..... 3.1 3.1 3.0 3.3 3.4 3.3
0-500 ft..... 8.4 8.3 8.1 8.6 8.9 8.5
0-1320ft..... 15.5 15.2 14.9 15.7 16.2 15.4
@ mph .... 90.9 93.5 96.2 89.3 88.5 91.3

Top Speed.... 144 150 154 150 141 150


30-50 mph
2nd Gear..... 2.6 2.5 2.4 2.7 3.2 2.6
3rd Gear..... 3.8 3.8 3.7 3.7 4.7 3.6
4th Gear..... 5.6 5.5 5.4 6.7 7.8 6.6
5th Gear..... 7.4 7.6 7.4 9.9 12.5 9.8
6th Gear.....

50-70 mph
2nd Gear.....
3rd Gear..... 4.2 4.0 3.8 4.0 5.0 3.8
4th Gear..... 5.6 5.5 5.2 6.6 7.3 6.4
5th Gear..... 7.2 7.2 7.0 9.3 11.5 9.1
6th Gear.....
</pre>

:bow:
 

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vaio76109 said:
[email protected] is a bit slow for a 330 manual. My 1/8 mile converts to a 14.4-14.5 1/4 mile and thats stock.
It's possible that the 330 I took the dyno from had a weak engine. It's also possible that the results are a bit skewed because I had to guesstimate on the final 500 rpm's worth of power results, since the dyno had cut off at 6000. Or, like I said earlier, it could just be a traction issue with the computer's default friction settings for tires. Like I said, the 96ish mph trap speed is pretty typical for the 330's I've seen at the strip.

Also, I have a PDF from a 2002 Road and Track sport sedan comparison test. Their manual 330i did 0-40 in 3.4 seconds, 0-60 in 6.1, 0-80 in 10.2 and 0-100 in 15.9. In addition, their 1/4 result was 14.7 @ 96.3 mph.

Meanwhile, also for comparison, Edmunds 2002 sport sedan comparison test says 14.9 @ 94.6 mph and 0-60 in 6.3.

Finally, C&D's results for the 330 ZHP:
Zero to 60 mph: 5.6 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 15.3 sec
Street start, 5-60 mph: 6.4 sec
Standing 1/4-mile: 14.3 sec @ 97 mph
Top speed (drag limited): 152 mph

The 0-60 and 0-100 can be explained by an aggressive launch with sticky tires. Trap speed is again very close.

Those numbers are all very close to the ones I have here, more than close enough to be explained by differences in road conditions, weather, or tire quality. Still, looking at these results, the numbers I entered for 6000 and 6500 rpm might be a little weak, probably due to a flaw from the dyno I got them from (winding down around peak).

The trap speed and 1/4 for the auto 330 are a tiny bit slow as well. 15.1-15.2 would be more likely.

Your 14.4-14.5 estimate, does that take into account your car's gearing, or is that a general estimate? 14.4 is pretty fast for a 330, most seem to score between 14.6 and 14.9. It's well known that the 3 series 3rd gear is a bit weak compared to some other cars.
 

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Protect Me From What I Want
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fullswing said:
Can anyone find the times for a 95 E36 M3 with the 3.0L six, and the 99 E36 M3 with the 3.2L six?
Official 0-60 number for the S52 M3 (96 and on) coupe and sedan (manual) is 5.7s. 1/4 mile 14.3s.

But I don't have the figures for the US S50 M3. IIRC it's somewhere around 6.0
 

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akhbhaat said:
Finally, C&D's results for the 330 ZHP:
Zero to 60 mph: 5.6 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 15.3 sec
Street start, 5-60 mph: 6.4 sec
Standing 1/4-mile: 14.3 sec @ 97 mph
Top speed (drag limited): 152 mph
I don't really like quoting magazines' numbers but I have this right next to me...
Car & Driver, July 2002, pge 74-81
Car: 330Ci manual
0-60MPH: 5.8 sec
0-100MPH: 15.5 sec
Street start, 5-60MPH: 6.5 sec
1/4 mile: 14.4 sec @ 97MPH
Top speed (governed): 135 mph
 

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Brake-torquing makes all the difference in the world when it comes to an automatic. Not great for the brakes, but if you only do it once in a while, it's fine.
 

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Penguin Koolaid said:
Brake-torquing makes all the difference in the world when it comes to an automatic. Not great for the brakes, but if you only do it once in a while, it's fine.
Torque braking you mean. The brakes are the least of your problems, its your tranny that it eats up.
 
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