So I looked in the 'Official Oil List' here and saw that Castrol Edge 5W-30 was on it. So I ordered some from Walmart. It arrived. It doesn't have BMW LL-01 on the label. WTH is up with that?
All2kool
It's not the European formula. Only the euro formula is ll-01. Personally it's all garbage. I run rotella t6.
I was running the euro ll-01 Castrol and eating a liter every 1100 miles. Switched to Rotella and got 4k miles before I was close to a liter low.
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I was running the euro ll-01 Castrol and eating a liter every 1100 miles. Switched to Rotella and got 4k miles before I was close to a liter low.
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As 325cilover said, it's not the European formula. I use this and it's ll-01 approved. https://www.walmart.com/ip/Castrol-...204&wl6=&wl7=&wl8=&wl9=pla&wl10=8175035&wl11=online&wl12=35931146&wl13=&veh=sem
I am going to say this once and I know this thread will be quickly locked for a number of reasons and I will end up with all sorts of hate.
So BMW dealer oil used to be Castrol 5W30 and it was supposedly LL01 approved. So why would standard Castrol 5W30 not be LL01 approved? Probably different additives or lack of additives or it is the same oil but for marketing reasons and not to poach on BMW's branded oil Castrol may have done things a bit differently and not labeled their 5W30 as LL01 approved.
So let the fun begin. It seems that Castrol 0W40 and 5W40 are labeled as LL01 approved. But does it really matter? Probably not. Why, because every one of the E46 is well beyond the warranty period and I do not think most "enthusiast" run the oil in their vehicle to 15,000 miles. I don't and I do not agree that the oil should be run 15,000 miles, but again, BMW did this for marketing and money reasons because this meant they only had to provide 3 oil changes at max under the original new car 48 Month/50,000 Mile Bumper to Bumper Warranty. If they would have had 10k mile oil change intervals they would had to provide 4 oil changes as part of the 48 Month/50,000 Mile Bumper to Bumper Warranty, this would have bankrupted the poor company.
Now what is interesting is BMW has reduced the oil change increment to 10k miles starting in 2014 as I recall. But what is even funnier is my wife's 2013 E93 went in for its 2nd official oil change at 30k miles a few weeks ago and BMW reprogrammed the oil change reminder to 10k miles from the earlier 15k mile reminder!!
In case anyone is interested BMW also reduced the items covered under the 48 Month/50,000 Mile Bumper to Bumper Warranty starting in 2017. Many of the service BMW provided were reduced to 36 Months/36,000 Miles starting in 2017! But it appears the other portions of the vehicle are still covered for 48 Months/50,000 Miles.
http://www.bmwblog.com/2016/01/07/s...07/starting-with-2017-models-bmw-will-reduce-the-no-cost-scheduled-maintenance/
I think part of the reduction in the oil change interval was due to the introduction of the Diesel's in North America and BMW wanted to try and "standardize" on the OCI for the customers. But this is still raised a lot of questions.
Fresh, clean oil is far better than oil that has been run for 10-15k miles. While people can argue all the minutia about the oil specs and how the engine will immediately fail if every engine oil spec is met, I think most can agree for daily driving and occasional spirited driving most quality oils that are clean are more than adequate to protect the engine from excessive wear.
Where the absolute oil specs become critical is when the engine is being driven very hard or under race conditions. And in most of these cases the engine oil would be changed after very hard driving conditions or most races.
So to simply answer your question, the oil you purchased should meet or exceed your driving requirements. You do not appear to drive your cars hard, they have little mileage put on each year and I doubt you will be pushing your oil change interval to 15,000 miles because with your annual driving numbers you have stated, you would only change your oil every 5 years to get to 15,000 miles. I would probably change your oil every 2 years (approximately 6,000 miles for your usage) unless the oil becomes too dark before the 2 years/6,000 mile period.
And yes, on engines with dipsticks, I carefully monitor the engine oil color and change the oil regardless of time or mileage if the oil starts to become too dark, which is a clear indicator of oil contamination either due to the driving habits or the prior conditions inside the crankcase.
As you also can see there are MANY members that run non LL01 oils in their cars and I do not recall reading about severe engine damage or failures. For example I do not think Shell Rotella T-6 is LL01 approved, but many people run this or other non LL01 oil without any severe problems.
So BMW dealer oil used to be Castrol 5W30 and it was supposedly LL01 approved. So why would standard Castrol 5W30 not be LL01 approved? Probably different additives or lack of additives or it is the same oil but for marketing reasons and not to poach on BMW's branded oil Castrol may have done things a bit differently and not labeled their 5W30 as LL01 approved.
So let the fun begin. It seems that Castrol 0W40 and 5W40 are labeled as LL01 approved. But does it really matter? Probably not. Why, because every one of the E46 is well beyond the warranty period and I do not think most "enthusiast" run the oil in their vehicle to 15,000 miles. I don't and I do not agree that the oil should be run 15,000 miles, but again, BMW did this for marketing and money reasons because this meant they only had to provide 3 oil changes at max under the original new car 48 Month/50,000 Mile Bumper to Bumper Warranty. If they would have had 10k mile oil change intervals they would had to provide 4 oil changes as part of the 48 Month/50,000 Mile Bumper to Bumper Warranty, this would have bankrupted the poor company.
Now what is interesting is BMW has reduced the oil change increment to 10k miles starting in 2014 as I recall. But what is even funnier is my wife's 2013 E93 went in for its 2nd official oil change at 30k miles a few weeks ago and BMW reprogrammed the oil change reminder to 10k miles from the earlier 15k mile reminder!!
In case anyone is interested BMW also reduced the items covered under the 48 Month/50,000 Mile Bumper to Bumper Warranty starting in 2017. Many of the service BMW provided were reduced to 36 Months/36,000 Miles starting in 2017! But it appears the other portions of the vehicle are still covered for 48 Months/50,000 Miles.
http://www.bmwblog.com/2016/01/07/s...07/starting-with-2017-models-bmw-will-reduce-the-no-cost-scheduled-maintenance/
I think part of the reduction in the oil change interval was due to the introduction of the Diesel's in North America and BMW wanted to try and "standardize" on the OCI for the customers. But this is still raised a lot of questions.
Fresh, clean oil is far better than oil that has been run for 10-15k miles. While people can argue all the minutia about the oil specs and how the engine will immediately fail if every engine oil spec is met, I think most can agree for daily driving and occasional spirited driving most quality oils that are clean are more than adequate to protect the engine from excessive wear.
Where the absolute oil specs become critical is when the engine is being driven very hard or under race conditions. And in most of these cases the engine oil would be changed after very hard driving conditions or most races.
So to simply answer your question, the oil you purchased should meet or exceed your driving requirements. You do not appear to drive your cars hard, they have little mileage put on each year and I doubt you will be pushing your oil change interval to 15,000 miles because with your annual driving numbers you have stated, you would only change your oil every 5 years to get to 15,000 miles. I would probably change your oil every 2 years (approximately 6,000 miles for your usage) unless the oil becomes too dark before the 2 years/6,000 mile period.
And yes, on engines with dipsticks, I carefully monitor the engine oil color and change the oil regardless of time or mileage if the oil starts to become too dark, which is a clear indicator of oil contamination either due to the driving habits or the prior conditions inside the crankcase.
As you also can see there are MANY members that run non LL01 oils in their cars and I do not recall reading about severe engine damage or failures. For example I do not think Shell Rotella T-6 is LL01 approved, but many people run this or other non LL01 oil without any severe problems.
Ditto what jfoj said - I run Mobile 1 5w-30 and I do not lose sleep over it but I also change the oil more often than once every 15K miles.
^ A lot of common sense goes a very long way on this issue. Unfortunately there are a lot of opinions and ideas about what must be done and what can be done.
Another reason to not go the 15k mile OCI is due to moisture build up in the crankcase for those who live in colder climates and/or driver shorter distances. 15k miles is insane anyway you look at it.
I also believe why BMW moved to the 10k mile OCI on the newer cars was partially due to the Diesel engines being brought into North America but also due to the move to Direct Injected fuel injected engines and the fact that there is no longer any fuel being sprayed into the intake ports and on the rear of the intake valves to "rinse" crankcase gasses from the CCV and oil coming through the valve guides. The cleaner and less contaminate the oil is, the less contaminated crankcase gases enter the intake path.
While the jury still may be out on the BMW Direct Injected gasoline engines and intake port and valve carbon build up, MANY, MANY other makes and models are having considerable problems with carbon build up in the intake ports and on the intake valve causing a variety of driveability problems. Most manufacturers are suggesting shorter OCI for Direct Injected gasoline engines that are seeing intake valve/port carbon buildup problems.
A word to the wise change your oil frequently and often. Exact spec oil is not the only thing that will allow for a long and trouble free engine life.
Another reason to not go the 15k mile OCI is due to moisture build up in the crankcase for those who live in colder climates and/or driver shorter distances. 15k miles is insane anyway you look at it.
I also believe why BMW moved to the 10k mile OCI on the newer cars was partially due to the Diesel engines being brought into North America but also due to the move to Direct Injected fuel injected engines and the fact that there is no longer any fuel being sprayed into the intake ports and on the rear of the intake valves to "rinse" crankcase gasses from the CCV and oil coming through the valve guides. The cleaner and less contaminate the oil is, the less contaminated crankcase gases enter the intake path.
While the jury still may be out on the BMW Direct Injected gasoline engines and intake port and valve carbon build up, MANY, MANY other makes and models are having considerable problems with carbon build up in the intake ports and on the intake valve causing a variety of driveability problems. Most manufacturers are suggesting shorter OCI for Direct Injected gasoline engines that are seeing intake valve/port carbon buildup problems.
A word to the wise change your oil frequently and often. Exact spec oil is not the only thing that will allow for a long and trouble free engine life.
Sorry you got the wrong oil!
Copied from our official oil thread:
Castrol Edge 5W-30 A3/B4
https://www.castrol.com/en_au/austr...ngine-oil/engine-oil-brands/castrol-edge/edge-product-page/edge-5w-30-a3b4.html
It’s specifically the Castrol 5W-30 A3/B4. Follow the link and you’ll see a picture of the container. Those links are there to try to help folks avoid buying the wrong oil. I suppose we could also have a photo there???
Copied from our official oil thread:
Castrol Edge 5W-30 A3/B4
https://www.castrol.com/en_au/austr...ngine-oil/engine-oil-brands/castrol-edge/edge-product-page/edge-5w-30-a3b4.html
It’s specifically the Castrol 5W-30 A3/B4. Follow the link and you’ll see a picture of the container. Those links are there to try to help folks avoid buying the wrong oil. I suppose we could also have a photo there???
Trying to keep up with all the running changes can and is very difficult. All the oil manufacturers keep changing their packaging, certifications and approvals.
Here is the real world issue, most modern synthetic oils all are very good, with tweaks and changes in additives the oils can be adjusted and optimized for the EXTREMES. Extremes in temperatures, pressures, loading, contaminates and so forth.
For the majority of people that drive their cars not on the edge of EXTREMES, using a quality synthetic oil, keeping the crankcase clean and regularly changing the oil around 5000-7500 miles or so while monitoring the engine oil color for heavier contamination, will be far more beneficial that at the end of the day than making sure the oil meets or exceeds every last spec and detail the manufacturer has outline. Many manufacturers actually change their oil specs after the fact due to problems that have cropped up that were unforeseen by the design Engineers.
VW/Audi is one that comes to mind with all the problems with the 1.8t engine sludge issues, there are others as well.
So even if you followed the manufacturers requirements 100% from day one does not always mean you are protecting your engine.
I think the biggest issue facing most of the current engines has to do with camshaft/roller lifter wear and timing chain wear along CCV/PCV and intake path carbon build up. But many of these problems again were due to design deficiencies, lack of proper lubrication, small engine oil sumps. Some manufactures are changing the oil spec to solve a more basic engine design deficiency. The majority of engine oil spec and formulation changes are reactive to problems in the industry.
The 7-8 quart oil sump that these engines have for the most part is a great benefit for engine longevity. The solution to pollution is dilution!
Here is the real world issue, most modern synthetic oils all are very good, with tweaks and changes in additives the oils can be adjusted and optimized for the EXTREMES. Extremes in temperatures, pressures, loading, contaminates and so forth.
For the majority of people that drive their cars not on the edge of EXTREMES, using a quality synthetic oil, keeping the crankcase clean and regularly changing the oil around 5000-7500 miles or so while monitoring the engine oil color for heavier contamination, will be far more beneficial that at the end of the day than making sure the oil meets or exceeds every last spec and detail the manufacturer has outline. Many manufacturers actually change their oil specs after the fact due to problems that have cropped up that were unforeseen by the design Engineers.
VW/Audi is one that comes to mind with all the problems with the 1.8t engine sludge issues, there are others as well.
So even if you followed the manufacturers requirements 100% from day one does not always mean you are protecting your engine.
I think the biggest issue facing most of the current engines has to do with camshaft/roller lifter wear and timing chain wear along CCV/PCV and intake path carbon build up. But many of these problems again were due to design deficiencies, lack of proper lubrication, small engine oil sumps. Some manufactures are changing the oil spec to solve a more basic engine design deficiency. The majority of engine oil spec and formulation changes are reactive to problems in the industry.
The 7-8 quart oil sump that these engines have for the most part is a great benefit for engine longevity. The solution to pollution is dilution!
The LL-01 spec is largely about the TBN of the oil -- the ability to neutralize acid. Other than that most (all?) ACEA A3/B3 oils would meet the spec.
If you change the oil sooner than the maximum interval (15K - 18K miles), any good synthetic oil is great.
If you change the oil frequently (under 8K miles), live in a mild climate and don't push the engine, even conventional oil with a modern spec ('starburst' SN) provides a generous margin of lubrication.
The M54 has a relatively large oil capacity and no turbo. It's not pushing the oil to its limits in the same way that a turbo 4 cylinder is.
If you change the oil sooner than the maximum interval (15K - 18K miles), any good synthetic oil is great.
If you change the oil frequently (under 8K miles), live in a mild climate and don't push the engine, even conventional oil with a modern spec ('starburst' SN) provides a generous margin of lubrication.
The M54 has a relatively large oil capacity and no turbo. It's not pushing the oil to its limits in the same way that a turbo 4 cylinder is.
The link that BaliDawg provided is for the Castrol Australia web page. This is the problem that I have found with MANY Oil/Petroleum web sites, the info is very market specific and is often not in line with what is labeled on the product. The web pages can be updated much easier than the product labels but for some reason does not happen like you would expect it to be updated.
It may have changed, but the Castrol Edge 5W40 here in the US is show as LL01 on the bottle, but I recall checking the Castrol web site when I originally found this 5W40 and there was NO indication that the Castrol Edge 5W40 in the US was LL01 approved on their web site.
Additionally I recall the Mobil 1 0W40??? was LL01 approved on the package but this may have been dropped off the packing.
Again, very hard to keep up with every vendor and ever change.
It may have changed, but the Castrol Edge 5W40 here in the US is show as LL01 on the bottle, but I recall checking the Castrol web site when I originally found this 5W40 and there was NO indication that the Castrol Edge 5W40 in the US was LL01 approved on their web site.
Additionally I recall the Mobil 1 0W40??? was LL01 approved on the package but this may have been dropped off the packing.
Again, very hard to keep up with every vendor and ever change.
Call me crazy and old school, but I've always done 3k mile oil changes in anything with dead dino oil. Synthetic I change ever 4k miles, maybe 5k if I'm pushing it that month on the road for work, but I NEVER exceed 5k miles. I'm sure modern synthetic oils can go for 7-10k intervals, but my Dad always changed his oil early and never had any catastrophic issues with any car he's ever owned.
oh oh...Oil thread....danger.....Next time I change oil in my 03-330i-e46 it will be it's 35th oil change since leaving Germany. If Going Nuts ever comes back here and you're not using Castrol.....Sie werden auf Sicht erschossen :brent2:
In one thought it is commendable that so many people obsess about oil. It is miss placed. They would do better to obsess about coolant change intervals.
Not so short answers-
The LL-01 spec is a 20 year old spec. Oils have changed significantly in the last 20 years. It was created so BMW could save money on warranty oil changes by extending the change interval to 15,000 miles. If you change your oil every 10,000 miles/one year or less you don't need it. Any of today's good synthetics of the correct weight will do. If you want to go past 10,000 miles on oil there are much improved oils for that today. Note that even Mobil's latest and greatest '20,000 mile Annual oil change' does not claim to be able to go past one year. Rather than focus on 'LL-01' focus on the correct weight for the coldest temps you regularly see.
Why use a synthetic if you change the oil every 4,000 miles? Todays engines with aluminum heads run temps very close to the flash point of 'conventional' oils. The water temp maybe regulated to 92c at the thermostat but the local head temps will be higher. Everything can be in perfect working order and you can literally boil off a couple of quarts of oil in one tank of gas. The resulting sludge on the oil control rings will be there forever and the engine will use oil for the rest of its life. Ask me how I know. This is a common complaint on a lot of Honda boards. 'My engine never used oil then in one tank of gas it used two quarts and now it always burns oil.' Synthetic oils have a much higher flash point and this should never happen.
I can't find it but I read a document from Ford engineering that claimed the most common path to engine failure today is coolant failure. Once the corrosion inhibitors in the coolant fail (typically 3 years) the internal water passages in the head oxidize. Oxidized aluminum does not transfer heat well and the head retains significantly more combustion heat. The coolant temp is 'normal' but he head temp is significantly higher. Aluminum has some great properties but thermal stability isn't one of them. The result is a warped head/blown head gasket.
I change the oil and coolant in my vehicles once a year. The price of the coolant is a fraction of the cost of the oil.
Not so short answers-
The LL-01 spec is a 20 year old spec. Oils have changed significantly in the last 20 years. It was created so BMW could save money on warranty oil changes by extending the change interval to 15,000 miles. If you change your oil every 10,000 miles/one year or less you don't need it. Any of today's good synthetics of the correct weight will do. If you want to go past 10,000 miles on oil there are much improved oils for that today. Note that even Mobil's latest and greatest '20,000 mile Annual oil change' does not claim to be able to go past one year. Rather than focus on 'LL-01' focus on the correct weight for the coldest temps you regularly see.
Why use a synthetic if you change the oil every 4,000 miles? Todays engines with aluminum heads run temps very close to the flash point of 'conventional' oils. The water temp maybe regulated to 92c at the thermostat but the local head temps will be higher. Everything can be in perfect working order and you can literally boil off a couple of quarts of oil in one tank of gas. The resulting sludge on the oil control rings will be there forever and the engine will use oil for the rest of its life. Ask me how I know. This is a common complaint on a lot of Honda boards. 'My engine never used oil then in one tank of gas it used two quarts and now it always burns oil.' Synthetic oils have a much higher flash point and this should never happen.
I can't find it but I read a document from Ford engineering that claimed the most common path to engine failure today is coolant failure. Once the corrosion inhibitors in the coolant fail (typically 3 years) the internal water passages in the head oxidize. Oxidized aluminum does not transfer heat well and the head retains significantly more combustion heat. The coolant temp is 'normal' but he head temp is significantly higher. Aluminum has some great properties but thermal stability isn't one of them. The result is a warped head/blown head gasket.
I change the oil and coolant in my vehicles once a year. The price of the coolant is a fraction of the cost of the oil.
I used to run mobil 1 0w40 and switched to rotella t6. I change it when the computer tells me to, which is usually about 15250 miles or so. My car just passed 290000 miles last week and runs like new. When I had the valve cover off around 230000 the engine was clean, a slight gold color inside like new oil.
My advice is to use good oil and good filters that meet or exceed the spec, change the oil and filter when the car tells you to, and keep it topped up. The engineers aren't infallible, but they know what they're doing. If the specs were that wrong the engines would be blowing up left and right.
My advice is to use good oil and good filters that meet or exceed the spec, change the oil and filter when the car tells you to, and keep it topped up. The engineers aren't infallible, but they know what they're doing. If the specs were that wrong the engines would be blowing up left and right.
Can***8217;t belive I responded to an oil thread. 
When the car tells you to? That***8217;s configurable in IKE coding and the default of 25000 Kms is absolutely INSANE - even with a high detergent oil like Rotella. Since 2006 my cars have said to change it every 8000km - still using a 0w40 weight with no burning oil or top offs. I like 8k but 10k would be acceptable, maybe even stretching it to 12k, but 25k - no way.
When the car tells you to? That***8217;s configurable in IKE coding and the default of 25000 Kms is absolutely INSANE - even with a high detergent oil like Rotella. Since 2006 my cars have said to change it every 8000km - still using a 0w40 weight with no burning oil or top offs. I like 8k but 10k would be acceptable, maybe even stretching it to 12k, but 25k - no way.
This may not be the most ordinary but if for whatever reason you happen to remove any major emissions control components from your car, I run this in my bimmer:
Mobile 1 Racing 4T 10W-40 Full Synthetic Motorcycle Oil. You can get it at Walmart or on their website. Definitely beats the "European Specs".
Mobile 1 Racing 4T 10W-40 Full Synthetic Motorcycle Oil. You can get it at Walmart or on their website. Definitely beats the "European Specs".
Unfortunately OCI are not just a mileage based thing, how a vehicle is used/driven and under what conditions the vehicle is operated under can cause the need for a shorter OCI, rarely are operating conditions that you should consider extending the OCI, at least most daily drivers are not ideal for longer OCI.
To keep things simple, look for ACEA A3 rated oils. This oil rating will require a High Temperature High Shear of 3.5 or greater.
Plain Castrol 5w30 that OP purchased, Plain M1 5w30 do not achieve ACEA A3.
I've stated that while I am a huge fan of the Diesel rated oils, the only concern is that over the long term, they will foul your emission system.
Plain Castrol 5w30 that OP purchased, Plain M1 5w30 do not achieve ACEA A3.
I've stated that while I am a huge fan of the Diesel rated oils, the only concern is that over the long term, they will foul your emission system.
Funny how my 2013 E93 OCI was changed/reduced by the dealer from 15,000 miles to 10,000 when it went in for its oil change at 30k miles!
I noticed this the first time I started the engine after getting the car back, so it appears that under many circumstances the dealers are automatically updating/reducing the OCI programmed into the cluster.
I am by no means a proponent or supporter of 15,000 mile oil changes. I know for a fact back in the 80's the 7,500 mile OCI touted by many US manufacturers was nothing more than a marketing ploy to allow the manufacturer to claim the fleet cost of maintenance was much lower than other manufacturers. Let say this did not turn out well in the long run for any of these engines that had 7500 OCI on non synthetic oil in cars with 5 quart sumps.
The primary reason that BMW could get away with 15,000 OCI is the synthetic oil that has specific additives to help the oil break down slower and the fact that the I6 engines have 7-8 quart oil sump. The solution to pollution is dilution!
This might be similar to your washing machine using the same water for 10 loads of laundry regardless if you worked in an office environment or a coal mine. You can only recirculate dirty water so long before it becomes a problem. And BTW, the oil filter only does so much. If you really plan on extending the OCI, get and install a bypass oil filter, but then you really need to monitor the engine oil color to make sure you do not push the OCI too far.
I noticed this the first time I started the engine after getting the car back, so it appears that under many circumstances the dealers are automatically updating/reducing the OCI programmed into the cluster.
I am by no means a proponent or supporter of 15,000 mile oil changes. I know for a fact back in the 80's the 7,500 mile OCI touted by many US manufacturers was nothing more than a marketing ploy to allow the manufacturer to claim the fleet cost of maintenance was much lower than other manufacturers. Let say this did not turn out well in the long run for any of these engines that had 7500 OCI on non synthetic oil in cars with 5 quart sumps.
The primary reason that BMW could get away with 15,000 OCI is the synthetic oil that has specific additives to help the oil break down slower and the fact that the I6 engines have 7-8 quart oil sump. The solution to pollution is dilution!
This might be similar to your washing machine using the same water for 10 loads of laundry regardless if you worked in an office environment or a coal mine. You can only recirculate dirty water so long before it becomes a problem. And BTW, the oil filter only does so much. If you really plan on extending the OCI, get and install a bypass oil filter, but then you really need to monitor the engine oil color to make sure you do not push the OCI too far.
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