BMW E46 Fanatics Forum banner

41 - 60 of 77 Posts

·
Registered
2005 325i Auto
Joined
·
543 Posts
Discussion Starter #41
I've got the ZF auto trans, and I'm just looking at the filter kit I've got here.

The oil pan gasket is paper like material only, no rubber or whatever edge like I've seen on some in videos. Is that OK, just a plain gasket like that? Should I wet it with ATF or treat it someway, or just bolt it up dry?
 

·
Registered
E46 '04 330Ci convertible 765 K km
Joined
·
1,528 Posts
I've got the ZF auto trans, and I'm just looking at the filter kit I've got here.

The oil pan gasket is paper like material only, no rubber or whatever edge like I've seen on some in videos. Is that OK, just a plain gasket like that? Should I wet it with ATF or treat it someway, or just bolt it up dry?
Just bolt pan with gasket as it is. No silicone, nothing.
tighten bolts with right torque though.
 

·
Registered
2005 325i Auto
Joined
·
543 Posts
Discussion Starter #43
Thank you,

What would that torque be? I think I've seen it mentioned as either 6 or 10 Nm, and I've seen recommendation to both use loctite and not to.
 

·
Registered
E46 '04 330Ci convertible 765 K km
Joined
·
1,528 Posts
Thank you,

What would that torque be? I think I've seen it mentioned as either 6 or 10 Nm, and I've seen recommendation to both use loctite and not to.
First, make sure your torque wrench is at working condition. If it wasn't returned to min level after every use, it calibrated wrong. It matters especially for wide range wrenches. Based on that, less is more, so 6 Nm will press gasket well enough, if all bolts tigh equally, and you won't have troubles to remove pan for next service.
before you start to remove bolts, make sure you clean torx holes thoroughly, otherwise dirt doesn't allow socket to fit properly and you risk to damage bolt. Also, make sure you have torx 27 - not 25! - as many standard sets do not have that size.
 

·
Registered
2005 325i Auto
Joined
·
543 Posts
Discussion Starter #46 (Edited)
First, make sure your torque wrench is at working condition. If it wasn't returned to min level after every use, it calibrated wrong. It matters especially for wide range wrenches. Based on that, less is more, so 6 Nm will press gasket well enough, if all bolts tigh equally, and you won't have troubles to remove pan for next service.
before you start to remove bolts, make sure you clean torx holes thoroughly, otherwise dirt doesn't allow socket to fit properly and you risk to damage bolt. Also, make sure you have torx 27 - not 25! - as many standard sets do not have that size.
I do back my torque wrenches off after each use, always.

I actually don't count on them being dead accurate to 0.1 of a Nm, but more so that they tighten evenly. Yep I've got T27 and will clean each hole and give each bolt a light tap on the T27 while inserted in the bolt.

Are these bolts pretty difficult or something? Would it help to crack them with the motor hot?

Also, is it possible to see the trans temp in INPA?
 

·
Registered
E46 '04 330Ci convertible 765 K km
Joined
·
1,528 Posts
I do back my torque wrenches off after each use, always.

I actually don't count on them being dead accurate to 0.1 of a Nm, but more so that they tighten evenly. Yep I've got T27 and will clean each hole and give each bolt a light tap on the T27 while inserted in the bolt.

Are these bolts pretty difficult or something? Would it help to crack them with the motor hot?

Also, is it possible to see the trans temp in INPA?
Yes INPA shows temperature of ATF. However, there is known issue with temperature sensor of transmission. Somehow it could start wrong reading, showing about 12-15 C higher temp than actual one (It seem doesn't affect transmission work though).You could see it on cold engine, when there is difference between engine oil temp and ATF temp (ATF shown as about 10-15 C warmer. ). If there is, then transmission sensor gives you wrong data.
For bolts removal - if no one touched them before, you won't have troubles to remove them. I would still spray all with penetrating oil. , just make sure head is properly fit and be careful. It is good if you can get any spare bolts though, as well as extractor set, in case some of bolts won't go. I doubt you can get those bolt as new , they are unreasonably expensive and not standard so not available in hardware stores. It is torx 27, M6 x 22. There are to links to find them.



Also, you can buy similar ones m6 x 20 from AUDI/VW (as act of betrayal)
And, as many advised, lose filling plug before you do anything else.
 

·
Registered
2005 325i Auto
Joined
·
543 Posts
Discussion Starter #48
Cheers Anton,

I strongly doubt it's ever been touched, and I'll definitely use some penetrating oil the day before. If they snap I honestly think I'll step the betrayal up even further by fitting high tensile M6 x 20 allen/pan heads from the hardware.

I've got an adhesive aquarium thermometer strip I'll use for temp. I'll just stick it to the pan. It only goes to 35C, but I'll see it creeping up I hope, and top it off at that point.
 

·
Registered
2004 325i automagic
Joined
·
3,028 Posts
I've got an adhesive aquarium thermometer strip I'll use for temp. I'll just stick it to the pan. It only goes to 35C, but I'll see it creeping up I hope, and top it off at that point.
If you have an infrared thermometer, then you can just 'laser' the oil pan toward the rear of transmission and that reading should be pretty close to what the atf temp sensor would read.

A couple years ago I compared the infrared thermometer readings to what an autel scanner was reading for atf temp and they were within a couple degrees (farenheight) of each other. Almost identical. Fwiw, the heat would spread from front of pan toward the rear as it warmed up and I took temp readings off the rear, so I figure the temp sensor was also towards the rear. This was on a gm transmission though.
 

·
Registered
E30M3 Race F10 535 R1150Rt M Coupe
Joined
·
4,043 Posts
Cheers Anton,

I strongly doubt it's ever been touched, and I'll definitely use some penetrating oil the day before. If they snap I honestly think I'll step the betrayal up even further by fitting high tensile M6 x 20 allen/pan heads from the hardware.

I've got an adhesive aquarium thermometer strip I'll use for temp. I'll just stick it to the pan. It only goes to 35C, but I'll see it creeping up I hope, and top it off at that point.
I just completely fill them cold. When it can't take more, start it and fill it the rest of the way. Done.
 

·
Registered
E30M3 Race F10 535 R1150Rt M Coupe
Joined
·
4,043 Posts
Many get way too concerned about the temperature. The point of the instructions should read: Do not fill over Xx deg celsius.

Filling cold then immediately starting (no need to run through the gears) and filling to the max sees about half a liter extra.

I've been doing the above for 35 years. I've done a few... ;)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
23 Posts
Not having 35 years automatic transmission service experience, just want to thank MrMcar for his posts.

Knowing poor engineering practices is always a good thing. An example of a poor engineering practice: sucking oil out of the car instead of draining while hot. Makes no difference crankcase or trans pan, quick lube or respected top notch servicer.

How did the drain and fill and drain and fill and drain and fill some more ever become acceptable when servicing an automatic trans? If you do that and in the same breadth insist only use that precisely specified fluid from BMW be used, is criticism not unjustified? Another example of a poor engineering practice. All ZF says on the subject is so many liters if you change the filter and so many for a rebuild. They leave the rest to the servicer, you. You might need improved methods over an ape.

There are excellent alternatives to ANY German made transmission fluid or crankcase oil; please don't tell me no. If you are in a hurry, OK just swing by the dealer and pick up what ever they have for you. Otherwise do the required research; it might turn out that the BMW oil is made by so and so and that so and so also makes it for Ford who sells it for half what the Germans sell it to you for. Don't get me wrong, you must meet or exceed the mfrs requirement with verified and credible written and vetted proof, or ...blow your trans.:)
 

·
Registered
2005 325i Auto
Joined
·
543 Posts
Discussion Starter #53
Many get way too concerned about the temperature. The point of the instructions should read: Do not fill over Xx deg celsius.

Filling cold then immediately starting (no need to run through the gears) and filling to the max sees about half a liter extra.

I've been doing the above for 35 years. I've done a few... ;)
From what I'm reading elsewhere, I think you're right on it. It seems this ATF expands a lot?!

I'm in no hurry, so I'll do my flush/filter etc, top it off and then leave it overnight then do it that way. Ambient temp is 26-30C here at the moment, so I don't see any reason not to.

Got her up on stands, ready to go. Just filthy hot here and humid as hell as we build up to a tropical thunderstorm, so I'm staying nice and clean and showered in the aircon right now. I'll start when the weather begins to behave itself and I've got an assistant.

Got some thread penetrant on all the bolts, and the fill cap did open (despite having King Kong tightened it previously) so it's almost game on.
 

·
Registered
2004 325i automagic
Joined
·
3,028 Posts
Many get way too concerned about the temperature. The point of the instructions should read: Do not fill over Xx deg celsius.
This I can confirm from personal experience.

I undefilled it once while fiddling with the hand pump while engine was running during second stage fill. The intake straw fell off the pump into the gallon jug and by the time I fished it out and got going again ... I ended up underfilling by at least half a quart. Should have put fill plug back on and turned off engine. End result, the car/transmission didn't work right the highway (didn't want to go fast) and had trouble up hills.

Once I topped it up correctly it was (and still is) fine, but you definitely do NOT want the atf too hot when filling.
 

·
Registered
E30M3 Race F10 535 R1150Rt M Coupe
Joined
·
4,043 Posts
Not having 35 years automatic transmission service experience, just want to thank MrMcar for his posts.

Knowing poor engineering practices is always a good thing. An example of a poor engineering practice: sucking oil out of the car instead of draining while hot. Makes no difference crankcase or trans pan, quick lube or respected top notch servicer.

How did the drain and fill and drain and fill and drain and fill some more ever become acceptable when servicing an automatic trans? If you do that and in the same breadth insist only use that precisely specified fluid from BMW be used, is criticism not unjustified? Another example of a poor engineering practice. All ZF says on the subject is so many liters if you change the filter and so many for a rebuild. They leave the rest to the servicer, you. You might need improved methods over an ape.

There are excellent alternatives to ANY German made transmission fluid or crankcase oil; please don't tell me no. If you are in a hurry, OK just swing by the dealer and pick up what ever they have for you. Otherwise do the required research; it might turn out that the BMW oil is made by so and so and that so and so also makes it for Ford who sells it for half what the Germans sell it to you for. Don't get me wrong, you must meet or exceed the mfrs requirement with verified and credible written and vetted proof, or ...blow your trans.:)
it might turn out that the BMW oil is made by so and so

Most usually Fuchs during that time. Hence why I use their products.
 

·
Registered
2005 325i Auto
Joined
·
543 Posts
Discussion Starter #56
So I'm doing this right now, using a hybrid BaliDawg/dump and pump method.

I drained the pan and filled it again.
I disconnected the return line from the heat exchanger and connected a piece of plastic tube to a tray.
Ran the motor in park until it had pumped out the torque converter and started to bubble. Dirty ATF came out.
Fully refilled and did it again. Clean ATF came out.
Changed the filter and cleaned the tray, refilled fully and topped off with motor running.
Ran motor for a while, shifting between all gears and used paddle shift function as well.
Shut down and drained pan one more time. Unnecessary, ATF was clean.
Topped off again and am waiting for car to cool for last running top off at room temp.

I've most likely overdone this, but the car is new to me and I wanted to be sure I had all the old ATF out. I'll do it again in 60,000kms when it hits 300k, but I'll probably pump out the TC only once and not worry about the final dump and pump, as I now know what fluid's in it and when it was last done.

I'm a little concerned about how the trans behaved while I was working the gears, but I've never done it while the motor was cold and up on stands.

When I put it in drive or reverse, the motor slowed considerably. No bad noises, but it was certainly engaged and working. Park brake was on, and brake pedal firmly pushed down.

When I used the paddle shift, it didn't want to go higher than second. I could take it up to the higher gears and they showed on the instruments, but then just dropped back to 2nd each time. Should I be worried about that?

Temp here is 23C, and the pan is lightly warm to touch. @MrMCar should I just let it cool right down and top it off running and in park at this temp, or warm it up a little?

Thank you for any tips in advance.
 

·
Registered
E46 '04 330Ci convertible 765 K km
Joined
·
1,528 Posts
shifting between all gears and used paddle shift function as well.
:D Neil, it is subtle way to let us know you have paddle shifters)))
Whenever you eanna swith manually, transmission drops gear to most suitable for present torque/ revs, so nothing wrong there when you see gear gets back to 2nd.
 

·
Registered
2005 325i Auto
Joined
·
543 Posts
Discussion Starter #59
:D Neil, it is subtle way to let us know you have paddle shifters)))
Whenever you eanna swith manually, transmission drops gear to most suitable for present torque/ revs, so nothing wrong there when you see gear gets back to 2nd.
Lol...sorry mate, I didn't know paddle shifters were a badge of honor. Are they not standard on all models? Only tried it out the other day when coming down a mountain road. Excellent for steep and windy descents.

I did figure that it was likely that it wouldn't let me select 3rd + while stationary, thanks for confirming that.

EDIT:

Hang on... do I even have "paddle" shift? I'm talking about moving the shifter across to the left and selecting gears manually, not just in drive.
 

·
Registered
2005 325i Auto
Joined
·
543 Posts
Discussion Starter #60
Nice work.
Do you see any improvement?
Was the oil dirty?
The fluid was reasonably dirty, but I've certainly seen worse. It was not the original fluid as I expected, the box has definitely been serviced.

Only very clean red Australian "Penrite" ATF in her now. Found the LT11741 rating on the label as well, which wasn't on their website.
 
41 - 60 of 77 Posts
Top