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Discussion Starter #1
ok i tried to get a oil change but they said for non M cars, the oil is still clean and not worth it to get a oil change...i told them about how a engine being broken in would have metal shellings and they brought me to take a look at the dip and i pretended i know what dirty oil looks like so i was like yeah i guess its still clean..hehhe, i mean i didnt see any metal and the color of the oil was still a really light color, so i ended up just getting my snows mounted...both guys at the dealer strongly advised me against changing the oil right now...they told me the earliest u should do it is at 7500mile or its just a waste..:dunno: :dunno:

but the good news is 9 mo until 1200 miles, i may not be able to do 100mph cuz of snows, i can still rev my baby up to oh..maybe 5000rpm..? heheheh :D :D :D
 

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can ya spare some change?
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that's bull, I always change mine at every 5K mile. If you have less than say 2-3K miles then it would prob be a waste, but its your money, if you want to change it, they shouldn't stop you.
 

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You can not hurt you car by changing the oil...the more often the better...every 5k miles is a nice interval.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
no its just i thought the 1st oil change should be done really early cuz the of the metal shellings, shillings, i dont know.
 

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The oil filter trapped all the metal shavings that's why you can't see it on the dip stick. The question is, do you want to gamble on how much metal particles the oil filter can hold?

BTW my service guys recommended me to change it early at the end of my run-in period if I'm buying the car as opposed to leasing.
 

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Actually, you are correct in your description of the metal shavings in the oil, but these are the shavings that break in your engine. Engine designers have said for years not to change the factory oil early for this reason.

When an engine is cast, and the cylinder bored, the piston and cylinder do not mate perfectly. If you change the oil too early, you remove the abrasives (the metal shaved off in those first few hunderds of miles), and your pistons will not seat correctly. The end result is premature failure of your rings (the rings around the piston that seal the combustion chamber from the crank case), and subsequently failure of the exhaust system, crank bearings, wrist bearings, etc. If you only own the car for 70,000 miles, you may not experience this. If you own it for life, you are in for some expensive repairs.
 

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Big Baller - Shot Caller
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jdl75 said:
Actually, you are correct in your description of the metal shavings in the oil, but these are the shavings that break in your engine. Engine designers have said for years not to change the factory oil early for this reason.

When an engine is cast, and the cylinder bored, the piston and cylinder do not mate perfectly. If you change the oil too early, you remove the abrasives (the metal shaved off in those first few hunderds of miles), and your pistons will not seat correctly. The end result is premature failure of your rings (the rings around the piston that seal the combustion chamber from the crank case), and subsequently failure of the exhaust system, crank bearings, wrist bearings, etc. If you only own the car for 70,000 miles, you may not experience this. If you own it for life, you are in for some expensive repairs.
I tend to agree with you jdl75, what is your reccomendations on the first oil change.

I know many people SWEAR by 3,000 miles because of no other reason than they have always done it that way. With the advent of new technology in metallurgy, synthetic oils, filters, etc maybe you don't have to change it that often. Are we smarter than BMW and other automotive engineers?

Of course you can always change at every 500 miles if you like, and it won't hurt anything, but there is certainly a point where the cost greatly outweighs the performance hit.

I for one, go by the manufacturer recommendation on oil changes, primarily because I never keep a car more than 2-3 years anyway. I have never had any problem with them. If I were to put 150K miles on a car, maybe I would have seen increased maintenance costs. But for ME, that isn't a factor.

Bottom line, do what you feel is right for you.
 

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OldGold1906 said:


I tend to agree with you jdl75, what is your reccomendations on the first oil change.

I know many people SWEAR by 3,000 miles because of no other reason than they have always done it that way. With the advent of new technology in metallurgy, synthetic oils, filters, etc maybe you don't have to change it that often. Are we smarter than BMW and other automotive engineers?

Of course you can always change at every 500 miles if you like, and it won't hurt anything, but there is certainly a point where the cost greatly outweighs the performance hit.

I for one, go by the manufacturer recommendation on oil changes, primarily because I never keep a car more than 2-3 years anyway. I have never had any problem with them. If I were to put 150K miles on a car, maybe I would have seen increased maintenance costs. But for ME, that isn't a factor.

Bottom line, do what you feel is right for you.
I manage my oil changes as follows:

New oil every 15k
New filter every 5k

The synthetic oil would technically last virtually forever if you could keep it clean. Unfortunately, oil technology has far outpaced filter technology. I love the design of the engine that allows me to change the filter w/o draining the oil out of the car. I've been waiting for this for years.

On a new BMW 325/330, I would change my filter at 7500, and my oil/filter at 15000. BMW recommends 15k for both, but if you talk to a BMW tech, they told me "off the record" of the filter falling apart by this point (literally cycling through the engine).

Think about it - is the manufacturer going to suggest we do something that is going to cause more warrranty claims?

Do you ever read the bottle of shampoo - just because it says rinse and repeat, do you? Seriously, the 3000mi was invented by the oil industry to sell more oil. Plain and simple.

Oil technology has improved over time, as have filters. Why did my dad chnage every 6 mo / 6000 mi, and now I need every 3000? Please!!!

I've actually heard of people running lower grade oil (today's oil is grade SJ, I believe) to break in the engine better - today's oil really extends break-in time.

My $.02

If it matters, I worked for Honda as an Engineer for a while building / designing cars, and have spent long hours picking the brains of the engine gods. This all comes from pretty good sources.
 

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If it's not advisable then why those Lexus offer a free oil change at 1000 miles for all their new cars? Including the IS300, our main competitor.
 

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I just recently had my first oil change at a shop. I only had around 6500 KM ( approx 4000 miles ? ).
I saw the castrol oil that came with the car -> it was so watery....:eek:

I refilled with Motul 300V 5W30 in it (and it was a clear gold color). Started up my car and my gosh :yikes: the engine is super quiet and during high revs, the engine feels and sounds more smooth.
 

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Big Baller - Shot Caller
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mickey513 said:
If it's not advisable then why those Lexus offer a free oil change at 1000 miles for all their new cars? Including the IS300, our main competitor.
Most new cars these days don't require changing oil at 1000 miles. Lexus may be an exception, not challenging that. But, if I drove a Lexus and the manufacturer recommended a 1000 mile oil change, that is what I would go with.

As was stated above, why would a manufacturer deliberately INCREASE the frequency, when they know good and well that they could make money off more frequent service intervals. Doesn't make good business sense. As for the mechanics of it, well I am no expert in the field. But I would go as far as saying if BMW or Lexus set their service intervals at 1500 mi oil change and fluid changes, 75% of the owners would follow that guidance without hesitation.
 

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Big Baller - Shot Caller
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cheffy said:
I just recently had my first oil change at a shop. I only had around 6500 KM ( approx 4000 miles ? ).
I saw the castrol oil that came with the car -> it was so watery....:eek:

I refilled with Motul 300V 5W30 in it (and it was a clear gold color). Started up my car and my gosh :yikes: the engine is super quiet and during high revs, the engine feels and sounds more smooth.
I don't think 5W30 is recommended for the M3's......... not sure if you have one.
 

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jdl75 said:
The synthetic oil would technically last virtually forever if you could keep it clean. Unfortunately, oil technology has far outpaced filter technology. I love the design of the engine that allows me to change the filter w/o draining the oil out of the car. I've been waiting for this for years.

On a new BMW 325/330, I would change my filter at 7500, and my oil/filter at 15000.
That sounds like a great idea! I'll try that.
So far I've been doing a complete oil and filter change at twice the frequency indicated by the OBC. From now on I'll just change the filter for the "in-between" services.
 

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mickey513 said:
If it's not advisable then why those Lexus offer a free oil change at 1000 miles for all their new cars? Including the IS300, our main competitor.
Probably a recommendation of the design engineer - maybe their casting process is so bad it shaves off too much in the first 1000mi? It's free because every one would be a little PO'd if they had to pay for a change at 1000mi!
 

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jdl75 said:


I manage my oil changes as follows:

New oil every 15k
New filter every 5k

The synthetic oil would technically last virtually forever if you could keep it clean. Unfortunately, oil technology has far outpaced filter technology. I love the design of the engine that allows me to change the filter w/o draining the oil out of the car. I've been waiting for this for years.

On a new BMW 325/330, I would change my filter at 7500, and my oil/filter at 15000. BMW recommends 15k for both, but if you talk to a BMW tech, they told me "off the record" of the filter falling apart by this point (literally cycling through the engine).

Think about it - is the manufacturer going to suggest we do something that is going to cause more warrranty claims?

Do you ever read the bottle of shampoo - just because it says rinse and repeat, do you? Seriously, the 3000mi was invented by the oil industry to sell more oil. Plain and simple.

Oil technology has improved over time, as have filters. Why did my dad chnage every 6 mo / 6000 mi, and now I need every 3000? Please!!!

I've actually heard of people running lower grade oil (today's oil is grade SJ, I believe) to break in the engine better - today's oil really extends break-in time.

My $.02

If it matters, I worked for Honda as an Engineer for a while building / designing cars, and have spent long hours picking the brains of the engine gods. This all comes from pretty good sources.

This is good info but there is still a negative stigma for me when I even consider anything more than 5-6k miles between full oil changes.

I understand what you're saying about synthetic oil lasting a long time and outpacing the life of the filter...but it's a $40k+ car and 7 qts of oil isn't that much $$$.
 

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mickey513 said:
If it's not advisable then why those Lexus offer a free oil change at 1000 miles for all their new cars? Including the IS300, our main competitor.
Because rice is highly absorbent :D

And I think the G35 is now the main competition ;)
 

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vinnymac said:



This is good info but there is still a negative stigma for me when I even consider anything more than 5-6k miles between full oil changes.

I understand what you're saying about synthetic oil lasting a long time and outpacing the life of the filter...but it's a $40k+ car and 7 qts of oil isn't that much $$$.
I understand your hesitation - it's exactly what we've been conditioned to believe by the marketing gurus. All I can really offer is would BMW/Honda/Nissan etc. tell you to extend the interval if it would damage the car? I don't think so - it's not enough of a sales advantage.

I've been told that too-frequent changes can be bad for the car as well - accelerates seal / gasket degradation. That's why we now see the "special" oil for older/high mileage cars.
 

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jdl75 said:


I've been told that too-frequent changes can be bad for the car as well - accelerates seal / gasket degradation. That's why we now see the "special" oil for older/high mileage cars.
By using synthetic oils seal degradation should be reduced, making older/high mileage oils unnecessary. What can happen with seals used with conventional oil is that a layer of sludge can buildup around the seal. Since the seal is no longer lubricated it shrinks as it dries up and will eventually start to leak. The high mileage oils contain a higher level of detergents and esters that will clean the engine slightly and swell seals again. The funny thing is that if you used a high quality synthetic from the start, this problem is mitigated, making "higher mileage" oils nothing more than a marketing ploy.
 

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mdvsynthetics said:


By using synthetic oils seal degradation should be reduced, making older/high mileage oils unnecessary. What can happen with seals used with conventional oil is that a layer of sludge can buildup around the seal. Since the seal is no longer lubricated it shrinks as it dries up and will eventually start to leak. The high mileage oils contain a higher level of detergents and esters that will clean the engine slightly and swell seals again. The funny thing is that if you used a high quality synthetic from the start, this problem is mitigated, making "higher mileage" oils nothing more than a marketing ploy.
By your sig file, I think we need to listen to you. :thumbup:
 

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jdl75 said:


I've been told that too-frequent changes can be bad for the car as well - accelerates seal / gasket degradation. That's why we now see the "special" oil for older/high mileage cars.
This is one of the stupidest thing I had ever heard. A car engine deterating (ie, seals, gaskets, etc,) is a result of non maintenance , abuse by the driver, not by changing the oil frequently.

I seriously hope you aren't that gullible.
 
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