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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Today I went to go test drive a beautiful Z4M and was in the process of getting my current car appraised by the dealer when the manager calls me over to tell me the news.

He checked the paint thickness on the roof and some door panels and needless to say the car has been repainted and there is bondo on the roof. Looking at me with disbelieving eyes the manager asked if I had a Car Proof done when I bought the car and I said yes, and that it came back clean. He didn't believe it could have so he ended up running the report and to my shock there was an accident in which the police were involved back on 10/14/2003.

This leads me to believe that when I bought the car the Car Proof had to have been modified by the salesman. I purchased the car July 2009 and this accident was missing from the report. I have all my paper work from the day of purchase and the original car proof. The car proof doesn't show any accidents or damages but it also doesn't show a name of the person who ran the report.

What can I do? As a result the value of my car has declined by I would say a good $5,000. Other than that my car runs fine and hasn't been any trouble.

Should I go to the police and ask for their advice or to get a record of the accident? Get a lawyer or confront the business manager that sold me the car with my proof and ask him to buy back the car at the auto trader (Canadian) dollar value? Realistically what can I do?? Please help a fellow fanatic......
 

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Unfortunately you waited too long.. not going to really do much about it unless you can get whoever Car Proof is to buy it.. I know Carfax has a buy back guarantee if you buy a car that has a problem and it wasn't listed they'll eat it..
 

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I'm not a lawyer, but it seems to me that you have all the evidence you might need...as in a current carfax that shows the accident, and the old carfax that you have that doesn't show the accident.

I'd start by going to your local police and talk to a detective; I'd report the crime. I'd also, investigate how your carfax was altered. Do you have a copy of the new carfax showing the accident?
 

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Report it to the police my friend.. And you should go back to your seller where you brought the car (with the police) and ask for clarification..
 

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Sounds civil to me... I don't think the Police will investigate these kind of 'frauds'... Good luck, a lawyer is more useful.
 

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Sounds civil to me... I don't think the Police will investigate these kind of 'frauds'... Good luck, a lawyer is more useful.
+1

The police man isn't going to take you or follow you to the dealership to discuss a discrepancy in a carfax report. He'd rather be eating doughnuts.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I really think that they used pdf reader to modify it because there is no way an accident in 2003 wasn't reported in 2009 but appears on the report in 2011.

I will stop by the police station and ask them for advice but I sort of think it will be a waste of time. They will probably tell me that I have to go to a lawyer and file for a civil law suit but I don't think it will hurt to ask. My best bet might be to just call the dealership that sold me the car and confront them with the evidence. If they blow me off, I'll talk to a lawyer. I don't think my request is unreasonable for them to eat that cost and buy my car at the current market rate considering that is what it would be worth without this damage done to the car .... however I doubt they will see it that way.

Thank you for all the help guys!!
 

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Be prepared for the dealership to claim that they gave you the entire report and that you have altered it now to make the car look better or to get them to pay you. You might have another report run to see if they present dealership hasn't altered the new report now to rip you off. This is going to be a very difficult problem to resolve and if the first dealership (or even the salesman on his own) forged the document its going to be hard to prove. Sorry for your troubles!
 

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honestly these cars arent worth enough to even worry about it anymore i would just live with it and figure it out from there.. if it was a 2011 r8 i would be more concerned. i know its the principle but just go with the marxist theory, work harder, and just roll with it/learn from it
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I spoke with the police and the proof I have is grounds for a civil law suit. They suggested I speak with the manager of the dealership and with a lawyer.

honestly these cars arent worth enough to even worry about it anymore i would just live with it and figure it out from there.. if it was a 2011 r8 i would be more concerned. i know its the principle but just go with the marxist theory, work harder, and just roll with it/learn from it
Not true, it makes a difference in the value of the car of roughly $5,000. I have low km on my car compared to others posted for sale in Ontario Canada.

Be prepared for the dealership to claim that they gave you the entire report and that you have altered it now to make the car look better or to get them to pay you. You might have another report run to see if they present dealership hasn't altered the new report now to rip you off. This is going to be a very difficult problem to resolve and if the first dealership (or even the salesman on his own) forged the document its going to be hard to prove. Sorry for your troubles!
I have the car proof that the dealer gave me and if you run a new one today it shows the accident on it.

Will keep you guys posted.
 

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+1

The police man isn't going to take you or follow you to the dealership to discuss a discrepancy in a carfax report. He'd rather be eating doughnuts.

+2 Call Judge Judy.

$5,000 is a sharp decline for a repainted roof or panel. Was it salvaged or mauled in the accident?
 

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Found out my car was wrecked before I bought it from BMW two years ago...guess you live and learn because at the time I didn't bother asking for a Carfax, etc. I assumed the dealer was obligated to disclose such information...boy was I wrong.
 

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I also am perplexed at the 5K difference. Especially if it's a 7 year old repair that is unnoticeable to the naked eye. It was obliviously a quality repair if you hadn't noticed in 18 months.

I think there sometimes is overemphasis on body work when dealing with used vehicles. It's one thing if there is major mechanical or structural damage from an accident. But if there is some body "fix-it" done by a quality shop it really shouldn't reduce value by thousands. Personally, I wouldn't be willing to pay a couple grand more for a used pristine car vs. a similar one with some minor repairs done professionally. Especially since I expect to have body work done on my cars due to having to deal with with the general non-caring public everyday.
 

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You have a fair estimate of the loss $5,000. Go to the seller and show the 2 versions of the Carfax. Seller has knowingly misrepresented the condition of the car.
If you are able to sell privately and the buyer is not bothered by the Carfax (if he even runs it) you could get normal selling price. Then you will not have suffered a loss at all.
Some repair work is very well done - the dealer was looking for reasons to reduce the value of the trade, possible to push you to sell privately.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 · (Edited)
or maybe the dealer buying your car is creating a false report in order to screw you. But $5,000 is your estimate on depreciation? Really? That's awfully generous for a car as old as yours
No false report from the dealer wanting to take my car for trade in. I ran the car proof myself at home direct from the company and have the same proof. A comparable car with 40,000km more than mine is selling for 23,500. I have only 60,000km and the condition of the car inside and out is pretty good. I'd say my car should still fetch between 20-21K (trade in) 21-24K (private sale), if there were no damages. Have to remember I am in Canada and we like to pay more for things :) lol
Or am I misunderstanding your awfully generous comment in that I am deducting too much for the damages?

You have a fair estimate of the loss $5,000. Go to the seller and show the 2 versions of the Carfax. Seller has knowingly misrepresented the condition of the car.
If you are able to sell privately and the buyer is not bothered by the Carfax (if he even runs it) you could get normal selling price. Then you will not have suffered a loss at all.
Some repair work is very well done - the dealer was looking for reasons to reduce the value of the trade, possible to push you to sell privately.
I wonder if the police report would shed light on the accident. Weird thing is the bondo used on the roof and why the whole car was pretty much resprayed. Maybe, the car was keyed or scratched up and the previous owner took it upon themselves to just get it all done at once. Can't say really, just idle speculation. I think the drop in value from lets say 20K to 15-16K could be reasonable. Doesn't look to be any frame damage. Car runs true and has been looked at by multiple mechanics when replacing wear and tear parts.

I think there sometimes is overemphasis on body work when dealing with used vehicles. It's one thing if there is major mechanical or structural damage from an accident. But if there is some body "fix-it" done by a quality shop it really shouldn't reduce value by thousands. Personally, I wouldn't be willing to pay a couple grand more for a used pristine car vs. a similar one with some minor repairs done professionally. Especially since I expect to have body work done on my cars due to having to deal with with the general non-caring public everyday.
You make a good point. If I wasn't looking to sell I would've resprayed the front bumper. A lady nicked the passenger side slightly and scratched the paint, plus regular road rash. Bumper looks fine and you can't even notice the damage with the car clean until you are close.
 
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