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330ci engine problems knocking sound

3584 Views 105 Replies 18 Participants Last post by  Sapote
hello everybody, I am looking for some help please my car is a 2001 330ci convertible my car is making a knocking/tapping sound at idle and when revving the car and driving. Basically the car has had this noise ever since I got it which was about a year and four months I feel like recently it has gotten worse.. the noise occurs at idle as you can hear in the video, and when I rev the car at a standstill and while driving when revving the car the noise is immediately there all the way up until about 3K revs when driving, the noise occurs more in first, and second and third and comes on when the revs are at about 2000 before 2000 It is really quiet and normal, but if I put the car in manual mode and drive in second once I start getting to 2000 revs, the noise comes and you can hear the rattle that you hear in the video , the noise is there till just over 3k rpm. I have done lots of work on the car such as new Disa valve, new camshaft position Sensor, the Vanos seals and rattle rings, new purge valve, services multiple times , new spark plugs and lots more done to the car. Any help would be massively appreciated thank you very much.. link to the video of my car below:
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Oh really so you don’t think it’s rod bearing then? Did the second video not sound like rod knock or something,
The last video with the engine idling so nice. A bad rod bearing should have shown up even if faintly. As rpm increased, it sounded like something was out of balance or loose and start hitting something else.
So I’ve just taken the belts off and started the car up, I normally have a rattle when I start the car but it didn’t do it this time, I believe that may be due to a rattle with the power steering pump when I move the the wheel cw and ccw it rattles.
Does it always start with the knocking noise every time with the belt installed? But with belt removed it doesn't knock at idle rpm?
It's too loud to call it rattling. What do you mean when moving the steering wheel and it knocks?
The last video with the engine idling so nice. A bad rod bearing should have shown up even if faintly. As rpm increased, it sounded like something was out of balance or loose and start hitting something else.

Does it always start with the knocking noise every time with the belt installed? But with belt removed it doesn't knock at idle rpm?
It's too loud to call it rattling. What do you mean when moving the steering wheel and it knocks?
Ah okay yes I get what you mean, and for your second part: with the belt installed when I start the car I have a rattle as it turns on for a couple seconds then disappears whereas with the belt off I started it twice and it didn’t rattle at all on startup, also at idle it wasn’t knocking but normally it doesn’t knock straight away if I give it a minute or two or drive and put it in park and idle the knock at idle will appear, but as you can hear in the video the knock when I increased the rev was still present, and also sorry for the confusion I meant the wheel on the steering pump when I move it it rattles see video attached that’s all my pullys :
I heard the exact same rattle and it sounds like rod knock. You didn't rev it up higher like you did in the original video you posted with the belts on. Also, no indication of whether either video was a cold or warm engine. A warm engine will produce the rod knock more easily on startup, etc. I'm thinking your belt-free startup was a cold engine? If yes, all is still consistent with rod knock to my ear. Oil analysis will confirm metal in the oil (unless you recently changed the oil).

You hear it high up because this knock is NOT a main bearing at the crank at the connecting rod's bottom end. It's at the top end of the connecting rod where it connects to the piston's wrist pin and it happens at the top of the stroke where the piston changes directions due to the bang of the ignition of fuel which slams the loose piston down onto the connecting rod. A way to confirm without disassembly is to use a dial caliper. You take the spark plug out of the suspect cylinder. Set the piston so it's gotten to TDC and is just starting to descend. So if there is slack, and you put a wooden dowel down into the cylinder and pushed the piston down, you'd move the piston slightly and reveal too much clearance. Normally you can't get any movement. So, the dial indicator will show you the distance down to the piston BEFORE you push on the piston, and AFTER. It will show a slight movement. To confirm, it's wise to check another cylinder in the same way, or perhaps all the cylinders so you're good at doing the measurement and have a firm confidence that you've measured movement of one of the 6 pistons to confirm what I suspect. These tools are not expensive and some places may even rent you one, or perhaps a friend has one.

Make sense? Happy to re-explain and this will save you a ton of money if it proves NOT to show piston movement on the suspect cylinder. Happy to explain and even draw a diagram to help you find the right tool.
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it happens at the top of the stroke where the piston changes directions due to the bang of the ignition of fuel which slams the loose piston down onto the connecting rod.
It can't knock at the top: Before the Bang by the spark, the rod pin is pushing the piston upward in compression, then BAng, the piston is pushing the rod pin down, and so the contact point never change and no knock. It will have light knock at before and after BDT as the pin pulls away from piston before BDT, then it pushes against the piston after BDT, so should be 2 knocks near BDT.
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The steering pump sounds bad as does the idler pulley that was the second thing you touched that needs replacing.The alternator bearings sound bad,the waterpump-what was clunking in the video?There was also a small leak near the thermostat too.Its worth having a look at the things you replaced earlier take them off and examine and open the valve cover as there seems to be something else that sounds loose to me.
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We're talking two different bearings here...well, actually one rod bearing and one wrist pin bushing at the top of the rod. I don't know about M52 rods, but on older M10/M30 engines, the wrist pin bushings lasted a long time. I think rod bearing noise is more audible because the crank can amplify the sound.
As for measuring piston travel, how does your method distinguish between the two possible culprits, assuming that your method is accurate enough to detect a fraction of a mm? It does assume that the piston has fully extended the rod.
Does driving 10k miles with either of those bearings/bushings that loose seem reasonable?
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The way i have tested the connecting rods is to place the piston at the top of travel TDC and place a rod on it and feel any slack as the crank is moved a little back and forth. I don’t think this car has that problem. It seems to have multiple failures producing noise.
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RRR - I find the pitch and location helpful. Higher pitch and located high is wrist pin. Lower pitch and deep in the engine rod bearing. Of course, either means teardown. If no slack is measured or all 6 same slack, dont teardown n keep looking. Stethescope now would be wise...
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Then there's piston slap when cold...but this is a 77k mile engine, so all of this is a puzzle. As you, me, and several others have said , we would do oil pressure test and use stethoscope.
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Okay thank you both of you, I appreciate it, how would I go about fixing this then what parts do I need is it rod bearings, is it a hard job to do? I know it involves taking the oil pan off etc.. how much would it cost diy and would this have damaged any other components in the car?
Don’t attempt this project unless you’re a real technician/ mechanic!! This is major work. Everything will need to be inspected. You need a clean place to perform this. All the proper tools and equipment. Not to mention the specialty tools. Don’t even think about it!! This ain't no small block chevy!!
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I had similar noise on my 2002 325i at 125k miles. I always used Castrol syntec 5w30 and never more than 10k mile OCI, 7-8k typically. No visible metal flakes in filter. Also thought it might have been AC pulley, vanos rattle, etc. Engine finally blew around 2k miles later. Used engines are quite cheap at the breakers ya…
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Hmm- it idles very nicely, but that little bit of noise on rev isn't good-

I guess I'd be looking at vanos and timing components, too,
before I yanked the bottom end apart. But sadly, this is the sort
of thing you learn by doing- as in, take it apart and see.
I'd also be stethoscoping around a LOT to see if I could
narrow it down.

Also, I'd want to see good oil pressure at the vanos solenoids, too...

yup, this isn't an easy one, in part because 'taking a peek' at the rod
bearings is so hard.

Doug, I've never heard of a BMW losing a wrist pin bushing,
but that doesn't mean it hasn't happened. Likewise, Ferd 300's
liked to crack pistons and make this noise, but never have I heard
of BMWs doing it...


t
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Toby - yeah these are stout, not known for structural issues like this.
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Rod knock. When you rev and let off the sound lessens during the over run. Classic rod knock. However, get a mechanics stethescope to be sure it is internal to the engine, not something like a belt pulley with a missing chunk...
I think you are right, another check is to pull one plug wire at a time until the knock goes away. Usually then you can say that particular piston has the rod knocking. Removing the fire removes the rod load. Worth a try.
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I think you are right, another check is to pull one plug wire at a time until the knock goes away. Usually then you can say that particular piston has the rod knocking. Removing the fire removes the rod load. Worth a try.
It idles so nice and so I don't think it's related to the rod.
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hello everybody, I am looking for some help please my car is a 2001 330ci convertible my car is making a knocking/tapping sound at idle and when revving the car and driving. Basically the car has had this noise ever since I got it which was about a year and four months I feel like recently it has gotten worse.. the noise occurs at idle as you can hear in the video, and when I rev the car at a standstill and while driving when revving the car the noise is immediately there all the way up until about 3K revs when driving, the noise occurs more in first, and second and third and comes on when the revs are at about 2000 before 2000 It is really quiet and normal, but if I put the car in manual mode and drive in second once I start getting to 2000 revs, the noise comes and you can hear the rattle that you hear in the video , the noise is there till just over 3k rpm. I have done lots of work on the car such as new Disa valve, new camshaft position Sensor, the Vanos seals and rattle rings, new purge valve, services multiple times , new spark plugs and lots more done to the car. Any help would be massively appreciated thank you very much.. link to the video of my car below:
This sounds like piston wrist pin
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Rod knock. When you rev and let off the sound lessens during the over run. Classic rod knock. However, get a mechanics stethescope to be sure it is internal to the engine, not something like a belt pulley with a missing chunk...
It idles so nice and so I don't think it's related to the rod.
OK, but you need to start checking things for the process of elimination. Best luck
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hello everybody, I am looking for some help please my car is a 2001 330ci convertible my car is making a knocking/tapping sound at idle and when revving the car and driving. Basically the car has had this noise ever since I got it which was about a year and four months I feel like recently it has gotten worse.. the noise occurs at idle as you can hear in the video, and when I rev the car at a standstill and while driving when revving the car the noise is immediately there all the way up until about 3K revs when driving, the noise occurs more in first, and second and third and comes on when the revs are at about 2000 before 2000 It is really quiet and normal, but if I put the car in manual mode and drive in second once I start getting to 2000 revs, the noise comes and you can hear the rattle that you hear in the video , the noise is there till just over 3k rpm. I have done lots of work on the car such as new Disa valve, new camshaft position Sensor, the Vanos seals and rattle rings, new purge valve, services multiple times , new spark plugs and lots more done to the car. Any help would be massively appreciated thank you very much.. link to the video of my car below:
I agree it sounds like a rod knock. If that's what it is, as I understand it, a rod bearing is worn out and one or both ends of one or more connecting rods is loose. The engine might last quite a while or it could fail tomorrow. It's definitely not good. I had a very similar sound with a Ford V-8 for a very long time and it never failed in 50,000 miles. I'm not sure about the 330 engine but I know the 3.2 L engines are prone to rod bearing failure and were subject to a recall. The thing with BMW's seems to be that they are very nice, fast cars but they do require quite a bit of maintenance and it's not cheap. I was warned when I bought my first one and it's true. Good luck.
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Hello everyone thank you all for your replies and helpful advice, there’s too many to reply individually, for what Sapote said yes the idle is absolutely perfect never moves stays at around 650/700 even with the the knocking whilst it’s idling still stays perfect, currently 3:20 am here lol so in the morning I will pull coil pack plugs how one of you suggested and report back if anything changes, would it be okay to rev the car up a little with only 5 cylinders firing to replicate the noise while revving or is that a bad idea? After that I will take valve cover off and check under there like someone suggested, again thanks everyone for helping
Cheaper than 5W30? Perhaps a Belgian thing. I'm used to paying the same for common grades, ATBE.
10W40 is noticeable cheaper than 5W30. I used to work at a warehouse which also sells engine oil, and despite 95% of our cars running on 5W30, 10W40 sold literaly 8 times more because people cheap out on oil like crazy.
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