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DIY: Do It Yourself
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Old 05-13-2014, 10:24 PM   #21
jjrichar
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Interesting about the plastic selector valve. I assumed they were all metal. You've find out pretty quickly what you've got when you drop the pan.

Just to clarify, how far are you pushing with the springiness. Is it loads or just the last bit of travel? Even if it seems lined up correctly at each of the gear selections, the notches you are feeling when you move the gear lever are the notches on the selector disk that is inside the transmission. When in P, the lever is as far forward as possible against the lever stops. At the same time, the selector disk is also against its stop inside the transmission. The two are aligned together by loosening the cable at the transmission with the selector disk in the P position (put in P before you start), pushing the gear lever all the way forward, and then tightening the cable. This may not be the issue, but it only takes about 1 minute to do once the car is off the ground. Also, the contacts that tell you what gear you are in are in the switch on the side of the transmission (ie attached to the selector shaft), and so will give you the correct indication of the gear selected regardless of the gear lever in the cabin.

Another couple of questions, when putting in P where the gear handle naturally sits without pushing against the springiness, do you get an indication on the instrument panel that is correct? Also, from this position, does the park interlock engage, that being does it stop you from selecting a gear without putting your foot on the brake?
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Old 05-13-2014, 11:56 PM   #22
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For 2,3,D,N,R, feels normal and instrument panel agrees. Anything beyond R and I get the springiness. R will go away on the instrument panel, but P never appears, which also keeps me from starting in park. The parking pawl doesn't fully engage (can roll with a ding ding ding sound).

I've been avoiding trying to get into P, since the other guy having the same issue managed to push the tang right out of the slot in the selector valve, then couldn't drive at all until he fixed it.
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Old 05-14-2014, 04:39 AM   #23
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Contrary to what I've previously written, I do think you might have a problem with the manual selector valve. The indications you describe sound like that is the case.

It might also be something with the roller that engages the selector disk, or a problem with the parking pawl, as there is a spring in here as well that might create the springiness. Have a look at the thread on the selector shaft to see what I'm talking about. Either way, removing the valve body is really the only way to work out what is going on. Hopefully it should be a relatively easy fix.
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Old 09-23-2014, 11:41 AM   #24
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With regard to the solenoid testing, an expert on these who works on them all the time told me this test is not perfect. If the resistance is miles off, then it will be your culprit. If the resistance is OK, the solenoid might still be faulty. .... I'm assuming you found the ASTG document...
Hi, I hope you are still watching this thread, as it has been very helpful so far in removing the valve body from my 5HP19 trans, but now I am at a confusing junction.

At this point I have opted not to rebuild the valve body but to see if there is an external electrical issue(s)

At first, when I tested the Turbine sensor with an ohmmeter it did not register anything (no connection) between the pins, so I figured it was bad, ordered another one. Now, the other one has arrived, measured within range of the stated resistance in the ASTG guide and I'm thinking "great! this'll fix it" but before I blindly put it back together again I test the old "bad" sensor and it is now reading the same as the new one (!). So now I have to wonder, is the old sensor intermittent or was I an idiot and didn't measure it right the first time.

So, before I start spending money to put the car back together I want to run more resistance tests, as a multi-meter is the extent of my diagnostic equipment.

Here is what really confuses me and may indicate the actual problem: When I test the resistance of the solenoids at the plug, they read close, but just under the stated range (e.g. range 30-34ohm, reading 27.5) but at least they are close. However, when I try to take the same reading from the plug on the wiring harness I get no reading at all.
(On P.99 of the ASTG guide pdf it shows the resistances and which pins to test on the Case Connector for 5HP19 valve body)
In fact, I am only getting a reading from the Case connector on EDS2 and EDS3 pins 12 and 7, 12 and 11 which is why I am suspecting the wiring harness has some sort of short.
I hope you can help!
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Old 09-24-2014, 12:51 AM   #25
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Personally I would pop the plug out, follow each of the wires from the solenoid plug to the main plug and check what ASTG has is correct. It may not be. If only a couple of the solenoids are showing continuity, you may have a problem with one of the ground wires. I would be checking the pin/wire setup is what you think it is, and then check the continuity of each of the wires.
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Old 09-24-2014, 11:53 AM   #26
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Personally I would pop the plug out, follow each of the wires from the solenoid plug to the main plug and check what ASTG has is correct. It may not be. If only a couple of the solenoids are showing continuity, you may have a problem with one of the ground wires. I would be checking the pin/wire setup is what you think it is, and then check the continuity of each of the wires.
Thanks for your reply!

So unwrap the wiring harness and check each wire to pin? I've already found the connector plugs on the harness to be fragile after being bathed in trans fluid for 12 years. I hope I don't destroy it trying to remove and test it with my fumble fingers.

Attached is the sheet from the ASTG I was using for resistance values showing my readings scribbled on the right. Only EDS2 and EDS3 were reading according to the "*" notations but all the solenoids measured about 10% out of range low with the harness attached (measured at the solenoid) which is why I am suspecting some sort of grounding issue. Not sure if my theorizing is correct, I dropped out of Electrical Engineering before the important "electrical" education part. At first I was thinking "maybe I'm reading the plug backwards" but there are actual numbers in the plug next to the pins so the diagram itself is accurate. As to whether the resistance check (pin) numbers are correct I would sure hope they were in a guide like this!
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Old 09-24-2014, 05:46 PM   #27
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I also thought the solenoid plugs would be fragile. They weren't. Just remove them like I describe and you shouldn't have any problems.

I wouldn't unwrap the harness. You should be able to see which coloured wire goes to each pin without having to do this. This only problem is the ground wiring, as both are purple. You should be able to follow each wire to see where it goes. Give a bit of a tug on the large plug end of each ground wire to see which one it is. Now go along and test the individual segments of the grounds.
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Old 09-24-2014, 06:03 PM   #28
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I also thought the solenoid plugs would be fragile. They weren't. Just remove them like I describe and you shouldn't have any problems.

I wouldn't unwrap the harness. You should be able to see which coloured wire goes to each pin without having to do this. This only problem is the ground wiring, as both are purple. You should be able to follow each wire to see where it goes. Give a bit of a tug on the large plug end of each ground wire to see which one it is. Now go along and test the individual segments of the grounds.
First solenoid plug I tried (the one separate from the rest) the retainer clip part of the plug snapped right off so for homework tonight I will try to be more gentle with the rest. Thanks for your help and I will report back here with results.
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Old 09-25-2014, 07:12 AM   #29
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What a great documented write up. I always viewed my Transmission as a potential time bomb waiting to go off. Now I know there is hope for a DIY if it does

Sent with BimmerApp using a Note 2, probably from the driver's seat of a BMW
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Old 10-06-2014, 03:34 PM   #30
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First solenoid plug I tried (the one separate from the rest) the retainer clip part of the plug snapped right off so for homework tonight I will try to be more gentle with the rest. Thanks for your help and I will report back here with results.
Well here I am... The short of it: I drove the BMW to work today

The longer..

After checking all the harness wires for continuity and the solenoids for proper resistance values I decided that it was the sensor, so I packed it back up and put it back toge... oops, did I mention I put the sensor in upside down? Yes, it fits upside down, but the wire from the sensor will not reach the connector on the valve body harness if installed incorrectly (Thanks ZF and BMW for having an idiot-resistant transmission for folks like me) so after turning it around the right way I put the valve body back, connected the sensors, put the filter and gasket and pan back on, filled it with fluid and...
...r and it is running great for the past 3 days after replacing the sensor.

Expenses for this job:
$200 Transmission Jack from harbor freight (this is not absolutely necessary, but it made dropping the transmission fluid pan SO much easier and I did not drip any on the garage floor- if you don't care about the mess this is not required)
$67 New ZF sensor http://www.rmeuropean.com/Part-Numbe..._CE04B7F6.aspx
$90 New ATF ( http://www.rmeuropean.com/Part-Numbe..._B4FD1BB9.aspx is the 5L jug and a couple 1L bottles to top it off- BTW the trans took *all 7 Liters* of fluid and I probably could have added a couple more ounces as it did not spill out, but I ran out so I closed it up.
$40 4 new jack stands. Also not required for this job if you already have them or a lift.

Total expense $397 including $240 worth of tools. I don't think I could have gotten away with this repair for under $900 from a mechanic, and I would not get to keep the tools at the end :-) This is quite a do-able job if you have the time. I took a couple of weeks being extra careful (and busy with other stuff) and doing research.

Thanks for all the help jjrichar!
Also had some help from this thread: http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...r-on-2002-525i

I have never ordered from RMEuropean.com before but they were quick and accurate with the shipping, so thumbs up for them.

For anyone wanting to spend 2x to get the "official BMW" sensor- I'm pretty sure it is the same product with 100% profit markup. YMMV
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Old 10-06-2014, 04:21 PM   #31
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Congrats.

Was there anything in my original posts that was incorrect? I was removing the valve body from a transmission that was out of a car. I guessed some stuff related to a transmission that was installed.
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Old 10-06-2014, 04:53 PM   #32
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Congrats.

Was there anything in my original posts that was incorrect? I was removing the valve body from a transmission that was out of a car. I guessed some stuff related to a transmission that was installed.
The only thing that slightly stumbled me at first was the fact that *some* of the larger-headed bolts on the valve body are not actually the ones holding it to the transmission. The one I took out all the way by mistake was the same size head and Torx size as the other retaining bolts but about 1" shorter in length, fairly obvious when it happened, but if I had taken out all of them I might have had more of an issue.
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Old 10-12-2014, 08:01 PM   #33
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In my sig I've got a link that has a lot of info on the 5hp19.

A good addition to this thread.
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Old 11-07-2014, 05:09 PM   #34
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For 2,3,D,N,R, feels normal and instrument panel agrees. Anything beyond R and I get the springiness. R will go away on the instrument panel, but P never appears, which also keeps me from starting in park. The parking pawl doesn't fully engage (can roll with a ding ding ding sound).

I've been avoiding trying to get into P, since the other guy having the same issue managed to push the tang right out of the slot in the selector valve, then couldn't drive at all until he fixed it.
Okay, it wasn't the selector valve. I dropped the pan, selector valve wasn't jammed or bent, had some play, and the parking pawl was okay. Then I noticed something odd looking outside the case -- it was a hose clamp, that was blocking the arm on the selector switch. I had had some coolant leak fixed by a shop a few weeks earlier, and they apparently dropped a clamp, which worked its way down after 4 weeks to the point where it jammed.

I didn't know whether to be relieved, or really irritated at the shop. I was dropping the pan anyway for a fluid/filter change, so I mostly just lost a million hours reading up on the transmission.
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Old 12-18-2014, 05:30 PM   #35
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hello

what was spec torque apply, when you put valve boby back, the bolts that hold it.

thnks
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Old 12-18-2014, 05:38 PM   #36
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hello

what was spec torque apply, when you put valve boby back, the bolts that hold it.

thnks
I don't think I used a torque wrench, just hand/wrench tighten firmly (that is, use a small wrench and tighten it firmly, not long-wrench extra torque, maybe 15lb-ft or less (Edit: much less! only about 10Nm = ~7lb ft) if I had to guess (and that was a complete guess), just don't want to tighten to the point of stretching the bolts or stripping the internal threads!)
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Old 12-18-2014, 05:49 PM   #37
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thanks

my problem with tranny 5HP19. i can only drive M gear 1 to 3, if shift 4 it gose back 3. if I do it the secon time, get gear sign and can only in R.

any idea, can help

1). ECU replace good working order.
2). replace solenoid 4, still same problem

I hive new use complete valve boby in good working order, and tranny to..
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Old 12-18-2014, 06:32 PM   #38
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The correct torque spec is 8 Nm for the valve body to the transmission. If you go to the original thread of the project (link for this at the start of this thread), it has links for all the documents on the transmission, including the torque specs. I would suggest using a torque wrench. Stripping a thread in the valve body or transmission is going to spoil your day.
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Old 12-23-2014, 01:52 PM   #39
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try understand 5HP19 tranny.....

I hive been posting at : https://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthr...8#post16454818 check out, also I post INPA CODE ERRORS IN pdf FILES.

before: my problem is that couldn't drive in automatic only in(M). (M) 1 to 3, 3 to 4 gose back 3, Secon time i try get gear sign and can only drive in (R) only shutdown all gears but expert (R)..
There was some can of rattling and clicking noise come from the tranny, when shifting (M) 1,2,3. I got this car from auction sale, They did not realize that tranny was leaking fluid at the time.
after all the research and diagnostic test, I determined that a problem one of the solenoid or valve body. So I when and got a use tranny in good working order.

After: So did little work. I started with valve body first, replace it and two speed sersors also. When I drain the tranny I got about 4 liters of fluid..ok
when put it all back together, it took about 8 liters to refill....and then I test drive the car. Now when drive In auto it start to jerking 3 to 4 gear, then gear sign come on S+D.
Park the car and turn it off wait 10min, restart card gear sign clear itseft, still makeing rattling and clicking noise must louder. Can drive in M 1 to 3, try goto 4 car start jerking and back 3 gear.
Also replace ECU. with INPA Clear all the ERROR CODE... The only thing that can think of is the Torque Converter or one of the clutches in the tranny when bad.

So I tested the old solenoid. this is what?

The three green one's Reads 27.5 ohms

The three black one's Read 5.5 ohms

The Yellow one Read 6.0 ohms EDS-1
------------------------------------

uploaded INPA code read out in PDF., take a look at it...it german
Attached Files
File Type: pdf engine error code.pdf (299.6 KB, 213 views)
File Type: pdf EWS(EWS3).pdf (241.7 KB, 207 views)
File Type: pdf tranny error.pdf (285.1 KB, 239 views)

Last edited by lloxley016; 12-23-2014 at 02:27 PM. Reason: editing
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Old 03-03-2015, 04:44 PM   #40
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For those who are interested, I installed the valve body I pulled apart for this thread into my transmission last weekend. It raised some points about the transmission and process that I wasn't previously aware of.

As background info, I had been doing oil changes on my transmission every 10-20,000 km. When drained, it would have a small amount of sediment in it (but still a nice red colour), and the magnets would not have much stuff on them at all. Overall it looked like a transmission in very good condition. I was however getting some small issues with it. Sometimes, especially when warm, I would get a small thump when selecting D. Also, the change from 1st to 2nd was inconsistent. Sometimes smooth, sometimes a bit notchy. I decided to use the valve body that was sitting in my shed as a replacement.

I purchased a rebuild kit from the ZF dealer in Sydney, which contains the parts required to go into the valve body, as well as others that go in the main body of the transmission. Unfortunately the only way to get the parts for the valve body is to buy the whole rebuild kit. I used pretty much all of the valve body I pulled apart in this thread except for the speed sensors and the upper front valve body. The upper front is slightly different for my 330. The transmission I pulled apart was a 1060 000 005, and the transmission in my 330 is a 1060 000 010. There are very few differences, but one difference is the upper front valve body. One of the pistons in it (which controls the TC clutch) is different, and so the body itself is a different part number. All I did was remove the front upper body from the transmission in my car, cleaned it up, and attached it to the valve body I was installing.

The result, the transmission shifts like a dream. Couldn't be happier with the result.

There were some things I learned form the process, which are listed below.

- Even though I had done regular oil changes on the transmission, there were parts of the valve body that were much dirtier with sediment than other parts. It was clear that some areas get good oil flow that flush things out, and other areas don't get much flow as all, allowing the sediment to accumulate. The only way to clean all this out it to remove the valve body and pull things apart.
- The channel plate on the two valve bodies were slightly different. The one on my transmission had two less small plastic orifices than the other, even though they are the same part number. It seems they decided to remove two that weren't required. The spots where they go are slightly smaller now so an orifice can't fit. On the parts catalog the two additional orifices aren't listed.
- The orifice colours have changed so there aren't two separate whites or browns, so stop any confusion.
- The wiring diagram on the ATSG guide is different for these transmissions. The two ground wires on the harness are not joined. One ground wire goes to only two of the EDS solenoids (I think numbers 2 and 3). The other ground wire goes to all the others. Both the wiring harnesses I have are the same.
- The speed sensors do not show any resistances. In the ATSG guide is says they should. I tested all of mine and they were the same.
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