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Old 01-09-2020, 05:21 PM   #61
PabloCruise
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1 plug out. At first I thought the last thread and a half was boogered up. After closer inspection and some wire brush, scraping at the threads it appears the anti seize baked into the threads making them look flat.

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That darn anti-seize!

I asked my friend who is a professional wrench. He says, "Supposedly better to remove plugs warm/hot as it makes the carbon more gooey instead of hard."
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Old 01-09-2020, 05:47 PM   #62
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Spark plug OEM does not recommend using anything on the plugs. If you have to use anti seize a very light coat on the first few threads is all you need.
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Old 01-09-2020, 07:18 PM   #63
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Alright peoples, all 6 are out. All but #4 fought w/ equal resistance. #4 came out easily. All have what appear to be anti-seize cooked on the last 2 or 3 threads at tip. My local sources said it is aluminum, not antsz on end of plugs.

When I had the opportunity to compare the new plugs to old, the old is 1/4" longer from the washer to the tip of the plug.

Not sure how far the oem plug is supposed to protrude into the combustion chamber, but holy hell that seems like a large difference. Perhaps the extra length of threads were exposed inside.

I threaded a new plug into #1 cylinder and it seemed to go ok. I will report back when I'm done. For reference, the plugs I removed are the first link.

https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...hoCJ30QAvD_BwE

These are the plugs from FCP I ordered.

https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...lus-0242236562

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Old 01-09-2020, 08:05 PM   #64
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All have what appear to be anti-seize cooked on the last 2 or 3 threads at tip. My local sources said it is aluminum, not antsz on end of plugs.
I don't think anti-seize compound would cooked as this. The 1/4" extra long plugs had the threads exposed and covered with burned oil and carbon, hard stuffs, and so the covered threads might have taken the head threads on their way out. Unbelievable how careless people just used any plugs on car.
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Old 01-09-2020, 09:13 PM   #65
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All 6 are torqued to 18 ftlb. To the masses, do think they would torque to spec if the head threads were wasted? I suppose there is a possibility the spark plugs shoot out of the head upon ignition. What is the consensus?

Thanks again fellow Fanatics.

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Old 01-09-2020, 09:53 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by Brewtus79 View Post
All 6 are torqued to 18 ftlb. To the masses, do think they would torque to spec if the head threads were wasted? I suppose there is a possibility the spark plugs shoot out of the head upon ignition. What is the consensus?

Thanks again fellow Fanatics.
Did you find aluminum in the spark plug threads? If not, you should be good.

I've used 18 ft lb before with no problem, but I did find out recently that the torque spec was bumped up to 30Nm, or 22 ft-lb. Seems that some plugs were getting loose at 18 ft lbs. I haven't gone back to retorque anything, but now when I do pull a plug for some reason I retorque it to 22 ft lbs.

https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...-plugs/5rctKot

I thought there was a thread about this recently but can't seem to find it.
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3/4" OD x 1/2"ID x 1/16" Thick : Thrust Bearing/Washer
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Old 01-09-2020, 10:18 PM   #67
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There was material in the bottom couple threads of each. Not sure how you determine if its aluminum, anti-seize, etc. It is packed in tight. I'll retorque them to 20 ftlb tomorrow.

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Old 01-10-2020, 08:29 AM   #68
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I think that you should be fine, although I would retorque to the slightly higher value per the tis.

Whoever put those plugs in are lucky that there wasn't contact with the piston. Can't really just throw in a random spark plug that happens to have the same thread!
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Old 01-10-2020, 08:55 AM   #69
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There was material in the bottom couple threads of each. Not sure how you determine if its aluminum, anti-seize, etc. It is packed in tight. I'll retorque them to 20 ftlb tomorrow.

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Got a picture? It would be good to know whether it is anti-seize or carbon. Mind you, you would have to be pretty liberal with the anti-seize when installing the plug for it to become problematic like that. You only need a smear if you use it.
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Old 01-10-2020, 08:58 AM   #70
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Glad you were able to get them pulled out. Not starting any debate (I'm confident they'll be a retort anyway) of anti-seize on plugs, albeit only a small amount. The idea is to provide a modicum of protection against galvanic corrosion and or thread adhesion.
Just makes it damned easier in the future....

I surmise, the car isn't in front of me and I can only glean information via your replies (thanks for sharing for the benefit of ALL!) that the longer spark plugs had the usual carbon build up on the threads that were (Now) exposed into the combustion chamber and the buildup greatly inhibited extraction and likely put a small amount of cutting into the threads?

All the more reason to use a torque wrench on your car for future spark plug replacement. I'll bet you'll be fine.
BTDT on wrong plugs a number of times during my career. Only had an issue on that one once in all my years.
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Old 01-10-2020, 10:10 AM   #71
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Here a comparison. Also, any thoughts on the state of the Bank 1 Precat O2 sensor I pulled?

Also, I applied a tiny dab of Copper anti-seize on each plug.Click image for larger version

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Old 01-10-2020, 10:15 AM   #72
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Not only is that cr*p it doesn't even make any sense. You are arguing for ZERO CONTROL over a controlled approach to the application of force. Like THAT makes sense. Who cares if you stuff a torque wrench? (which you're not actually going to do). Torque wrenches are a hell of a lot cheaper to replace than a cylinder head.
Very few torque wrenches operate in the opposite direction, you with all your expertise should have known that. Also applying the same torque for unfastening that is used to fasten the bolt isn't how things work, engineering says. It's just that it doesn't matter in this application provided you will SLOWLY unscrew the plug.
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Old 01-10-2020, 12:22 PM   #73
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If we are done at the Chocolate Factory, let's get back to reality.

All 6 plugs set at 20 ftlb. Started car up and idles ok. A little rough at first and then smoothed out after 15 secs.

I have some fuel system troubleshooting to do and then will take for a test drive.

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Old 01-10-2020, 12:25 PM   #74
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If we are done at the Chocolate Factory, let's get back to reality.

All 6 plugs set at 20 ftlb. Started car up and idles ok. A little rough at first and then smoothed out after 15 secs.

I have some fuel system troubleshooting to do and then will take for a test drive.

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Good news. Did you try and loosen the new spark plugs to see if the problem persists? And sorry for messing the thread

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Old 01-10-2020, 12:29 PM   #75
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I did not try loosening after they were torqued. When I ran the new plug in the #1 cylinder I did so in steps by unthreading it and checking the threads. They looked fine so as long the others threaded in in a similar fashion I figured to hell w it. My hands and forearms were beat after cranking each one for hours w 1/4 and 3/8 ratchets.

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Old 01-10-2020, 12:32 PM   #76
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How did the new ones feel on the way in? Damaged threads usually feel damaged in my experience.
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Old 01-10-2020, 12:39 PM   #77
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In my previous m52 engine the plugs, new or old , needed an enormous amount of torque to be removed or installed and that without any apparent thead damage. I suspect it had to do with the aluminum block creeping. I am talking about all the plugs but especially the third I think. It may was crossthreaded, how knows

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Old 01-10-2020, 01:00 PM   #78
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All were started a few threads by hand afterwhich I couldn't them anymore. So after ensuring they weren't cross threaded I used a 3/8 ratchet w nothing more than what I could expend w my wrist.

#4 cylinder was the exception. It came out the easiest and went in the hardest. It never felt cross threaded, but required more force than I was interested in exacting. I backed it out to check the threads many a time. In the end, I was able to set it @ 20ftlb.

I'm feeling a bit relieved at this point, but reserving any celebratory activity until its proven.

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Old 01-10-2020, 01:13 PM   #79
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OP, You're extremely fortunate they didn't hit the tops of the pistons. Must have JUST missed. OMG

I really don't like how the end threads look on the wrong one, yikes. Leave the new ones for as long as you can and install new with a T Wrench.

Number of posts? LOL

There's an old self help book from way back: Games People Play
One of the chapters is; "Make me right by making you wrong."

Something my old partner (at my older Bosch BSC) did frequently. Really pisses people off.
I digress.....
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Old 01-10-2020, 01:39 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by Brewtus79 View Post
When I had the opportunity to compare the new plugs to old, the old is 1/4" longer from the washer to the tip of the plug.

Not sure how far the oem plug is supposed to protrude into the combustion chamber, but holy hell that seems like a large difference. Perhaps the extra length of threads were exposed inside.
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OP, You're extremely fortunate they didn't hit the tops of the pistons. Must have JUST missed. OMG

I really don't like how the end threads look on the wrong one, yikes. Leave the new ones for as long as you can and install new with a T Wrench.
Seriously...wow.

For reference, I checked 5 different types of spark plugs that are compatible with the M54 (3 physically in my possession, 2 from clear photos online) and all of them have ~12 rings of thread.

Something is very odd with the ones you pulled. I think your theory (bolded) is accurate. In your photo, the "extra" threads under the electrode are mangled & shiny, which to me means they were probably weakened from exposure in the combustion chamber and chewed up on the way out.

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Originally Posted by Brewtus79 View Post
All were started a few threads by hand afterwhich I couldn't them anymore. So after ensuring they weren't cross threaded I used a 3/8 ratchet w nothing more than what I could expend w my wrist.

#4 cylinder was the exception. It came out the easiest and went in the hardest. It never felt cross threaded, but required more force than I was interested in exacting. I backed it out to check the threads many a time. In the end, I was able to set it @ 20ftlb.

I'm feeling a bit relieved at this point, but reserving any celebratory activity until its proven.
Chances are, you're fine moving forward and the relief is justified. Nice work on approaching this methodically and getting it sorted.
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