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Driveline, Engine & DME Tuning
Talk about driveline improvements, NA tuning and DME tuning your E46 BMW here. This includes diffs, intakes, exhausts, chips, software and OBD tuning.

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Old 07-11-2016, 03:34 AM   #81
LKMT
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cwarel View Post
The funny thing about my file that I changed that Y axis on throttle map so it starts from 0 , but it still shows as it starts with 1))
Did you change the axis with Romraider or Tunerpro?
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Old 07-11-2016, 03:44 AM   #82
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I had some idle hunting problems (including engine stalling when hot) as well, but way before this ISA topic came up.

If I remember correctly, this happened after I changed the injectors and then suddenly it was completely gone, after I corrected the injector deadtimes.
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Old 07-11-2016, 06:42 AM   #83
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What i donīt understand is, why is the ecu using the second row when there is no acc pedal angle at all?! If there is no pedal angle, iīd suspect it would/should use the first row...
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Old 07-11-2016, 07:23 AM   #84
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Originally Posted by daniel_f. View Post
What i donīt understand is, why is the ecu using the second row when there is no acc pedal angle at all?! If there is no pedal angle, iīd suspect it would/should use the first row...
I don't think the dme is looking directly at the second row values but instead looks at the values that corresponds to 7.5 degree pvs input.

When sbrach zeroed out the two first row of the wiki throttle table he also indirectly lowered the corresponding values for 7.5 degree pvs input to around 3.5 so just a bit higher than 2.999 and that seemed to help for him.

When I was testing yesterday I first tried just replacing the 5 on the Y axis with 7.5 this messed up the throttle curve but the idle worked as my initial throttle map. I think I could have changed the 9.999 Y axis value to 7.500 instead to get the same result but I haven't tested that yet.

My guess is as the dme basically is in ISA failsafe mode then it is for some reason using the 7.5 degree pvs values to calculate how it should adjust the idle.

Last edited by LKMT; 07-11-2016 at 07:27 AM.
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Old 07-11-2016, 07:49 AM   #85
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Theres no reason in the code to look for 7.5° PVS.

I modified one full flash few weeks ago with much more changes and the only thing i left out was second row all zero. So iīll try that file with raised ° and see what it does.
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Last edited by daniel_f.; 07-11-2016 at 07:52 AM.
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Old 07-11-2016, 08:03 AM   #86
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Originally Posted by daniel_f. View Post
Theres no reason in the code to look for 7.5° PVS.
Ok, then there is something else that's messing with us

Quote:
Originally Posted by daniel_f. View Post
I modified one full flash few weeks ago with much more changes and the only thing i left out was second row all zero. So iīll try that file with raised ° and see what it does.
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Old 07-11-2016, 09:59 AM   #87
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Due to the amount of changes, the engine behaves totally different

Short rev hang at ~1000rpm is totally gone now.
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Old 07-11-2016, 10:45 AM   #88
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Did you change the axis with Romraider or Tunerpro?
romraider
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Old 07-11-2016, 11:13 AM   #89
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romraider
Hmm that's strange I just tried changing the throttle Y axis with Romraider and it works for me. Both Romraider and Tunerpro shows the new value when I open the file afterwards.

I'm using the 0.9 definition file for Romraider.
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Old 07-11-2016, 11:27 AM   #90
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I agree that rows other than the first one corresponding to zero throttle input have an effect on the idle, even on an otherwise stock tune using the ISA. The first change I ever made to my tune was to the throttle map and if I modified the first 3 rows to make it more linear I got a hunting idle.
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Old 07-11-2016, 11:52 AM   #91
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Due to the amount of changes, the engine behaves totally different

Short rev hang at ~1000rpm is totally gone now.
Would you mind updating the wiki?
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Old 07-11-2016, 11:58 AM   #92
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Originally Posted by sbrach View Post
I agree that rows other than the first one corresponding to zero throttle input have an effect on the idle, even on an otherwise stock tune using the ISA. The first change I ever made to my tune was to the throttle map and if I modified the first 3 rows to make it more linear I got a hunting idle.
Thats probably because itīll use isa AND tps at the same time, where tps normally should be closed. To much air, higher aurflow then expected, massive retard of ignition and its falling flat on its nose.

I wonder if it would have worked if youīd modified ip_isapwm_pvs to compensate for that.
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Old 07-11-2016, 12:03 PM   #93
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Would you mind updating the wiki?
I will, i just need to figure out how to get it perfect. Right now there is some massive difference between A/C on and off which i currently donīt understand (without A/C the engine needs forever to lower rpm from 3000 to idlespeed).

Thing is, if i understand it correctly then ip_isapwm_pvs and ip_tps_sp_pvs are bound together. If we zero out isapwm_pvs then we need to compensate for that in tps_sp_pvs or the engine will get to few air. So its a huge amount of modifying, flashing, testing, modifying, flashing, testing... You get the point
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Old 07-11-2016, 12:04 PM   #94
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There is an issue with high idle in some situations with the latest values from MS43Wiki, but I haven't experienced the hunting you describe.

Could you also try this throttle map and see how the car behaves.
(Don't forget to change the Y axis)

Ok, I tried reverting back to the stock tune, modifying the Throttle Angle at Engine Start map per the Wiki, modifying the throttle map as per above, and suppressing the two DTCs.

This was much better. Idle would bounce twice between 1000-1200rpm after revving with AC off and then settle down to about 700. As the car was warming up idle would bounce between 1200-1500rpm about 5 times before settling back down to about 750 with AC on. Once it was all the way up to temp revving it with the AC on started the hunting between 1000-2000rpm again.
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Old 07-11-2016, 12:19 PM   #95
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Update: Zeroed out IP_IGA_n_dif_IS and the car won't idle. Drops to 500rpm and almost stalls then surges to 1500rpm.
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Old 07-11-2016, 01:06 PM   #96
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Update: Zeroed out IP_IGA_n_dif_IS and the car won't idle. Drops to 500rpm and almost stalls then surges to 1500rpm.
Which makes sense as that map is used to modify ignition angle at idlespeed when there is a difference to the setpoint.

There will most probably a changed map in the future research of ISA delete
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Old 07-11-2016, 02:51 PM   #97
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Ok, well I put that map back to stock and tested reducing the values in the second row of the throttle map below 1600rpm and set the entire Exhaust Vanos idlespeed map to -105 and the entire Intake Vanos idlespeed map to 126.
This didn't work either. Idle hunt was pretty bad and the car was on the verge of stalling everytime it dropped.



Then I backed out the throttle map change back to the settings recommended by Lakemountain but kept the Vanos map changes. This is the best it's been so far. I was unable to get it to hunt with AC off but it would still hunt with the AC on.

Here is a log. https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B7...FpNdkVkRVBnNkE
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Old 07-11-2016, 03:10 PM   #98
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Ok, well I put that map back to stock and tested reducing the values in the second row of the throttle map below 1600rpm and set the entire Exhaust Vanos idlespeed map to -105 and the entire Intake Vanos idlespeed map to 126.
This didn't work either. Idle hunt was pretty bad and the car was on the verge of stalling everytime it dropped.



Then I backed out the throttle map change back to the settings recommended by Lakemountain but kept the Vanos map changes. This is the best it's been so far. I was unable to get it to hunt with AC off but it would still hunt with the AC on.

Here is a log. https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B7...FpNdkVkRVBnNkE
Have you tried one of my files it has vanos changes to it , and my car seems to have no hunting problems what so ever
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Old 07-11-2016, 04:23 PM   #99
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I haven't tried your file yet.

What is your typical throttle angle with the car running and up to temp?
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Old 07-11-2016, 04:29 PM   #100
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I haven't tried your file yet.

What is your typical throttle angle with the car running and up to temp?
I did not do the logging on it yet , but the car once you started it idles at 900-1000 for 2 sec and idle drops down to normal setpoint and stays there if you got ac on or off , there is 2 files tho difference throttle map , 1 file you will have lots of vacuum so dont do engine braking the other one is fixed and thats the one im using and car runs fine
Either the car warm or cold , it has no difference on idle

Last edited by cwarel; 07-11-2016 at 04:30 PM.
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