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Driveline, Engine & DME Tuning
Talk about driveline improvements, NA tuning and DME tuning your E46 BMW here. This includes diffs, intakes, exhausts, chips, software and OBD tuning.

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Old 07-09-2016, 09:39 PM   #61
cwarel
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Yeah.Clear the adaptations using inpa

Last edited by cwarel; 07-09-2016 at 09:40 PM.
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Old 07-09-2016, 09:47 PM   #62
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sbrach,

zero out "IP_IGA_n_dif_IS", then flatten out intake and exhaust idle vanos maps(cold and warm).

The next step is to reset the idle adaptations. Note which way the idle moves the instant it resets. If the idle increases, lower ip_isapwm__tco. If the idle drops, increase ip_isapwm__tco. You only need to change the map by 1% each time. Keep doing that until there is no change when the idle adaptations are reset. Note how much you changed it and add the same to ip_isapwm_acin__tco for idle with A/C.
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Old 07-09-2016, 10:02 PM   #63
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Clearing adaptions hasn't seemed to make a difference.

So the maps for the ISA still have an effect even with the ISA removed? I will try what you said. I've been trying stuff all day and have t where it hunts non stop with the AC on but it only hints 4 or 5 times with the AC off. I found a small vacuum leak but believe the rest of the intake is sealed tight.

I will go back to the base settings and do everything you suggest. Thanks for your help guys. I really appreciate it.
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Old 07-09-2016, 10:05 PM   #64
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Also what do you mean by flatten out the VANOS maps? I tried decreasing overlap as much as possible to increase vacuum at idle. I set the entire exhaust map to -105 and most of the intake map to 126. Is this what you mean?
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Last edited by sbrach; 07-09-2016 at 10:34 PM.
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Old 07-10-2016, 05:24 AM   #65
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There is an issue with high idle in some situations with the latest values from MS43Wiki, but I haven't experienced the hunting you describe.

Could you also try this throttle map and see how the car behaves.
(Don't forget to change the Y axis)


Last edited by LKMT; 07-10-2016 at 05:29 AM.
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Old 07-10-2016, 11:48 AM   #66
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Ok I'll try that. I made the timing and VANOS changes last night but the car wouldn't idle at all. Not sure if the changes I made to the Vanos maps were correct. I'm going to revert back and then make one change at a time.


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Old 07-10-2016, 12:37 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by sbrach View Post
Ok I'll try that. I made the timing and VANOS changes last night but the car wouldn't idle at all. Not sure if the changes I made to the Vanos maps were correct. I'm going to revert back and then make one change at a time.
I have seen that with the ISA removed that modifying some maps could make the idle go unstable so changing one at a time would be a good idea.

I'm currently using the throttle map I posted earlier, the only issue I have noticed so far is that if I rev up the engine above 1600 rpm and let the rpms drop down to idle again then it stops at about 1000rpm for a short time before continuing to drop to idlespeed.
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Old 07-10-2016, 12:41 PM   #68
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My car would do that stock. If you revved it it would hang at 1000rpm for a few sec before settling down.

The best results I got yesterday were by zeroing out the first two rows of the throttle map up to 2400rpm. I also zeroed out the ISA map that has rpm and pedal position as the axis but I'm not sure if this had an effect.
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Old 07-10-2016, 01:01 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by sbrach View Post
My car would do that stock. If you revved it it would hang at 1000rpm for a few sec before settling down.
Then maybe it's the stock behavior then I won't have to worry about that

Quote:
Originally Posted by sbrach View Post
The best results I got yesterday were by zeroing out the first two rows of the throttle map up to 2400rpm. I also zeroed out the ISA map that has rpm and pedal position as the axis but I'm not sure if this had an effect.
I did alot of testing yesterday and from what I saw it seems that without ISA the dme pulls values from the c_tps_sp_pvs table at around 7.5 degrees pvs to regulate idle.
The map on MS43Wiki is more aggressive in the beginning meaning there are higher values around 7.5 and the dme doesn't seem to like it. That's why I made the above map and everything calmed down for me atleast.

Hopefully we can find some constant or map that will allows us more freedom with the c_tps_sp_pvs map later on.

What was the name of the map that you zeroed out?

Last edited by LKMT; 07-10-2016 at 01:17 PM.
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Old 07-10-2016, 02:05 PM   #70
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Alright boys , here is my file which is using newest map on wiki and its working perfect on my car which is a 3 liter manual , SAP delete , 2 pre cat and 1 post cat sensor ( if you dont want any vanos mods , just paste ur standard maps into , vanos part load warm engine both to intake and exhaust.
My car has no hunting , rpm feels like 800 , maybe it can be changed by modifying corresponding maps for idle
Here is the file im using right now http://www.filedropper.com/330tunedisalessfixedthrottle , make sure once u flash it , you erase fault codes cuz i had all cylinder activation bulls***, and erase all adaptations , then drive the car for a while and let it adapt .
Just in case im not responsible for your actions))) Once more this file works perfect on my car, report back if it fixed ur problems
This file is with Lakemauntains throttle map ,THATS THE ONLY DIFFERENCE between 2 files http://www.filedropper.com/330tunedisaless

Last edited by cwarel; 07-10-2016 at 02:08 PM.
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Old 07-10-2016, 02:26 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by cwarel View Post
Alright boys , here is my file which is using newest map on wiki and its working perfect on my car which is a 3 liter manual , SAP delete , 2 pre cat and 1 post cat sensor ( if you dont want any vanos mods , just paste ur standard maps into , vanos part load warm engine both to intake and exhaust.
My car has no hunting , rpm feels like 800 , maybe it can be changed by modifying corresponding maps for idle
Here is the file im using right now http://www.filedropper.com/330tunedisalessfixedthrottle , make sure once u flash it , you erase fault codes cuz i had all cylinder activation bulls***, and erase all adaptations , then drive the car for a while and let it adapt .
Just in case im not responsible for your actions))) Once more this file works perfect on my car, report back if it fixed ur problems
This file is with Lakemauntains throttle map ,THATS THE ONLY DIFFERENCE between 2 files http://www.filedropper.com/330tunedisaless
Good to have a working file to test with
Just a heads-up, you need to also change the first row on the Y axis for the Throttle map to 0 instead of 1. This is done to keep the throttle open when engine braking.
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Old 07-10-2016, 05:03 PM   #72
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Today we had 33C ambient temps (compared to 10-15 the last days) and the engine showed the hunting while stopping when i activate the A/C! So thats the first symptom.

I noticed when i deactivate the A/C at a stop and let the engine calm down, i could reactivate A/C and the engine stays at ~750rpm. Thats the second symptom.

Later today i noticed that the idle was hunting even with deactivated A/C and that was the time when it was hottest outside.

So i suspect there is a load-unbalance and an ambient temp unbalance in the current setup which will, however, lead to idle hunting between 1000-1500rpm.

Right now its 22C and the idle hunting goes completely away when A/C is turned off. Its back when i turn A/C on....
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Old 07-10-2016, 05:27 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by daniel_f. View Post
Today we had 33C ambient temps (compared to 10-15 the last days) and the engine showed the hunting while stopping when i activate the A/C! So thats the first symptom.

I noticed when i deactivate the A/C at a stop and let the engine calm down, i could reactivate A/C and the engine stays at ~750rpm. Thats the second symptom.

Later today i noticed that the idle was hunting even with deactivated A/C and that was the time when it was hottest outside.

So i suspect there is a load-unbalance and an ambient temp unbalance in the current setup which will, however, lead to idle hunting between 1000-1500rpm.

Right now its 22C and the idle hunting goes completely away when A/C is turned off. Its back when i turn A/C on....
Hm i live in NYC and its been hot today too , and i did not feel any hunting with or without A/C it just idles fine. Did you run on your own file or you tried mine? The funny thing about my file that I changed that Y axis on throttle map so it starts from 0 , but it still shows as it starts with 1))
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Old 07-10-2016, 05:42 PM   #74
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Im using the values from the wiki only
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Old 07-10-2016, 09:20 PM   #75
cwarel
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Im using the values from the wiki only
Well I dont know what to tell you guys , the first file I uploaded works perfect with and without AC
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Old 07-11-2016, 01:25 AM   #76
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Ambient temp being the reason I am having issues and others haven't makes sense since I'm in Arizona. It's been around 111F/44C.


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Old 07-11-2016, 01:40 AM   #77
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Well I dont know what to tell you guys , the first file I uploaded works perfect with and without AC
It's all good, just haven't had time to look at it nor test it ;-)
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Old 07-11-2016, 01:51 AM   #78
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I also zeroed out the ISA map that has rpm and pedal position as the axis but I'm not sure if this had an effect.
I would suggest putting that table back to the original values and test again with my throttle map and see if the car behaves any better.

I know that zeroing out ip_isapwm_pvs__pvs_n will break the idle logic and make the idle go all over the place.
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Old 07-11-2016, 02:14 AM   #79
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I didn't get a chance to work on it today but thought I might as well better document what I did yesterday.

With all other idle and throttle related parameters stock I tried the settings in the Wiki. At first it seemed that they worked, idle was around 700 with or without AC, start up cold and warm was fine, but after revving to anything above roughly 1500 the idle would start to hunt getting progressively worse until it was bouncing between 1000 and 2000 rpm. I could here the throttle valve hitting the hard stop.

I then tried many parameter changes with the best results from the following;

- Zero'd out first two rows of c_tps_sp_pvs (I know engine braking would cause issues, just testing)
- Zero'd out ip_isapwm_pvs_pvs_n
- decreased overlap around idle rpms in Vanos idle speed maps
- lowered throttle angle at engine start values by about half

This got it pretty close, I drove it around a bit and it was pretty solid without AC on but I could get it to hunt with the AC on.

Then I went back to stock and tried the settings recommended by blu302. I'm not sure if I modified the Vanos maps correctly because after changing the stock tune to match the wiki, zero'ing out the ignition map, setting the exhaust Vanos idle speed map to -105 and the intake Vanos idle speed map to 126 the car wouldn't really idle at all. It would surge to 2000r right at start, drop to 500rpm and almost stall, then surge back to 2000rpm. Both with and without the AC although the rate it gained and lost revs was much faster with the AC on. It was late at night by this point so I gave up for the night. Unfortunately I didn't get a chance to experiment anymore today.

Thanks for all the suggestions guys. I will try again tomorrow.



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Old 07-11-2016, 03:27 AM   #80
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I then tried many parameter changes with the best results from the following;

- Zero'd out first two rows of c_tps_sp_pvs (I know engine braking would cause issues, just testing)
- Zero'd out ip_isapwm_pvs_pvs_n
- decreased overlap around idle rpms in Vanos idle speed maps
- lowered throttle angle at engine start values by about half

This got it pretty close, I drove it around a bit and it was pretty solid without AC on but I could get it to hunt with the AC on.
The c_tps_sp_pvs changes would have dropped the values around 7.5 degree pvs to 3.5 instead of the 5 that you got with the wiki values.
That is closer to the original 2.99 value at 7.5 degree pvs and it could be why it behaved a little better but then the changes to ip_isapwm_pvs__pvs__n would have broken the idle adaption and that could be why it hunts with AC on (if you logged the engine while running you would probably seen that the dme would try to idle with an ignition timing of -5 to -10)

So I think my earlier advice would hopefully make ISALess work for you.

Last edited by LKMT; 07-11-2016 at 03:31 AM.
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