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Old 01-08-2020, 12:09 PM   #1
Nick DeZan
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Engine problem, need help

A couple of weeks ago I posted this regarding my daughters 2004 330ci:

"Faulty Crank Position Sensor, No Codes"
After chasing an intermittent problem with my daughter's 2004 330ci for several months i finally found the problem. Issue was occasional (once a week) long crank times (tach needle was indicating some rpm though) and occasional very rough idle after a thirty mile drive with an occasional misfire in cylinder #1. Never set a check engine light only a DIS/INPA logged error.

I replaced the crank position sensor and for a couple of weeks it was fine, but this happened to coincide with her being off work for the holidays. Now that she is back to driving 32 miles each way the problems have re-surfaced.
I was finally able to drive it when it occurred.
The gas pedal can be pushed further and further down with no increase in engine rpm. If you floor it it will then downshift and rev to redline with no problem, has plenty of power. Coming to a stop reveals a very rough idle. After further driving the problem went away and i could not reproduce it.
She says some days it does not do it and runs fine.
There is also the random long crank time (4-5 seconds).

There are no codes after scanning with both DIS and INPA.
Recently replaced the fuel pump, Crank sensor, Intake Cam sensor, CCV and all related vacuum hoses, etc.

I ran OBD Fusion and all looks fine to me with STFT at 0 and LTFT at +3%

I am thinking it is a bad throttle body actuator based upon the pressing of the throttle with no increase in engine speed.
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Old 01-09-2020, 08:11 AM   #2
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Hmmmm, this is real head scratcher. Was the new fuel pump made by Siemens/VDO? Did you replace the filter with one made by Mahle or Keyser? Check the fuel pressure at the fuel rail. Pressure has to be at least 50psi at all engine speeds and loads.

I think the DME would throw a code if the throttle body wasnt working properly. Use OBDFusion to check the performance of the MAF. Set the app up to read grams of air per second (g/s ) and see what it shows at idle and at 1000 and 2000 rpm.

Also, the gas pedal has 2 very closely matched high precision potentiometers. The DME s constantly check and comparing both. If the difference is too great the DME will throw a code. So, I think the gas pedal if ok.
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Old 01-09-2020, 08:19 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick DeZan View Post
A couple of weeks ago I posted this regarding my daughters 2004 330ci:

"Faulty Crank Position Sensor, No Codes"
After chasing an intermittent problem with my daughter's 2004 330ci for several months i finally found the problem. Issue was occasional (once a week) long crank times (tach needle was indicating some rpm though) and occasional very rough idle after a thirty mile drive with an occasional misfire in cylinder #1. Never set a check engine light only a DIS/INPA logged error.

I replaced the crank position sensor and for a couple of weeks it was fine, but this happened to coincide with her being off work for the holidays. Now that she is back to driving 32 miles each way the problems have re-surfaced.
I was finally able to drive it when it occurred.
The gas pedal can be pushed further and further down with no increase in engine rpm. If you floor it it will then downshift and rev to redline with no problem, has plenty of power. Coming to a stop reveals a very rough idle. After further driving the problem went away and i could not reproduce it.
She says some days it does not do it and runs fine.
There is also the random long crank time (4-5 seconds).

There are no codes after scanning with both DIS and INPA.
Recently replaced the fuel pump, Crank sensor, Intake Cam sensor, CCV and all related vacuum hoses, etc.

I ran OBD Fusion and all looks fine to me with STFT at 0 and LTFT at +3%

I am thinking it is a bad throttle body actuator based upon the pressing of the throttle with no increase in engine speed.
I would be inclined to look at the gas pedal sensors first too. The pedal talks to the DME and the DME talks to the TB. If the latter works sometimes that suggests to me at least that conversation is ok. The pedal is the more likely of the two to come to harm really. Maybe your daughter let's her boyfriend hammer it. You wouldn't necessarily know about it.

Last edited by RayPooley; 01-09-2020 at 09:43 AM.
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Old 01-09-2020, 09:23 AM   #4
bonestockE36
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I had a bad MAF. Diagnosing it I eventually found that in 5th gear pulls (auto) at ~2500 RPM or so 1/2 throttle made more power than full. With a manual this would have been obvious, but as the revs climbed with increasing throttle it made more power and you really only have seconds to feel it out or catch anything with fuel trims.
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Old 01-10-2020, 09:06 AM   #5
Nick DeZan
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The fuel pump was VDO/Siemens and the filter was a Mann.
I did check the fuel pressure and it is 50 psi while running and let it sit for an hour to be sure it held the pressure with the engine off.
After reading how the throttle body works with the dual pots checking each other, seems unlikely I could give additional throttle and the throttle valve not be responding. if it didn't move correctly the pots in the throttle body would read different than the pedal pots and a code would be thrown.
I'm going to try a known good MAF and see what happens, thanks for the replies.
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Old 01-10-2020, 02:00 PM   #6
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Coming to a stop reveals a very rough idle.
if left in this state for long then there should be a code generated.
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Old 01-17-2020, 05:53 PM   #7
Nick DeZan
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Update on this:
Last weekend spent some time with INPA and DIS checking out as much as possible. The rough running analysis on INPA showed only small variations around .2 - .4 based on a full scale reading of 8.0. After about 30 minutes of idling the exhaust note suddenly changed to a bah-bah-bah-etc indicating a possible misfire. I immediately checked the rough running again and cylinder 4 showed a value around 7.5. All other cylinders were around 0 - .2.
I pulled the coil and plug on cyl 4, plug looked good, reinstalled plug and put in a good used coil. Restarted car and it ran smooth with the INPA values around 0 - .3 in all cylinders. No misfire codes.
Daughter drove it to work this week and she said it still had the "flat acceleration" issue previously noted. I drove it to work and back today (65 miles round trip) and experienced what it is doing.
If you are on the freeway driving at a steady 60 mph, rpm at 2000, then quickly give it maybe 1/2 inch more pedal and hold it so the rpm's quickly go to 2500. As soon as it hits 2500 rpm it immediately drops back down to 2200 - 2300 rpm and you can feel the change in engine note. It did this every time i tried it.
If the speed is lower around 40 mph, you can hardly see the drop after it peaks.
Is this normal operation? I don't have an automatic e46 to compare it to.
Full throttle runs to redline feel strong.
I was going to try and make some data runs using OBDFusion but i need to learn how to log the data first.

I wonder if someone can comment on the acceleration issue with respect to their car.
Thanks
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Old 01-17-2020, 07:10 PM   #8
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If you are on the freeway driving at a steady 60 mph, rpm at 2000, then quickly give it maybe 1/2 inch more pedal and hold it so the rpm's quickly go to 2500. As soon as it hits 2500 rpm it immediately drops back down to 2200 - 2300 rpm and you can feel the change in engine note. It did this every time i tried it.
This maybe due to tranny and not engine. You probably think this is normal if the 1/2" more pedal caused it to gradually got up to 2300rpm and hold there, with a different engine note due to more loading; but it looked wrong if it initially jumped to 2500 and then dropped back and stayed at 2300 rpm. Maybe the torque slip allowing the rpm overshoot and then it catch on.
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Old 01-17-2020, 09:32 PM   #9
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I was thinking the trans could be the issue, but isnt the torque converter locked up at freeway speeds in 5th?
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Old 01-28-2020, 09:32 AM   #10
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isnt the torque converter locked up at freeway speeds in 5th?
Not necessarily. And, the TCC (torque converter clutch) is variable and controlled by PWM signal. It's not full lock or unlock like other cars.

You can look at the Transmission live data in INPA (F5 Status) to see if/when the TCC is engaged, as well as the input shaft RPMs, output shaft RPMs, TC RPMs, ATF temp, solenoid states, etc.

If the problem is transmission related, I'd expect EGS trouble codes. Have you read the transmission trouble codes using INPA?

If there was a throttle issue you would have DME trouble codes and a likely EML dash light on.

I'd also read the ABS trouble codes for good measure, as it can control both DME and EGS during traction control events.

Doing the OBD Fusion diagnostic summary and three log files is a great idea. It should show if there are obvious engine running issues. Upload them to your Shared folder in DropBox and post public links to them in this thread for us to examine.
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Old 01-28-2020, 10:09 AM   #11
bonestockE36
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Have you tried another MAF yet?

The transmission operation seems normal to me. I'm no expert, but after I thought the TCC wasn't working I observed the same behavior. For whatever reason, BMW chose to open the TCC during any but the smallest throttle transient. My Honda van only opens the TCC when some significant threshhold is exceeded.

The trans can't rob the engine of torque. If the torque is there, you'll feel it and the car will go. Trans slipping would be obvious. I'd be watching fuel trims, timing, and MAF during the times it's acting up with OBD Fusion. I don't know INPA, but it sounds like you could monitor the gas pedal and throttle body position as well. The intermittent misfires I read about make me worry about the harness, connectors, and DME and some of the reported issues with fluids being drawn up to the DME and DME pcb issues. While it does happen it doesn't seem to be all that common.

DME doesn't monitor for misfire in certain conditions. I have a no code misfire after starting, but only at certain temperatures. The first cold morning 5F or so, I went out to start it expecting it to be much worse, but it was fine and misfired only briefly after warming up for a while. The misfire will last much longer in milder conditions around 32-40F. OBD fusion doesn't show anything obvious and I have yet to try INPA.
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Old 01-28-2020, 02:28 PM   #12
Nick DeZan
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Thanks for the replies.
Yes I swapped out the MAF with no change in vehicle operation. Has a new crank positions sensor, swapped out different cam position sensor, CCV replaced about a year ago with VC gasket. Smoke tested for about an hour a couple of months ago, no leaks. DISA verified working by using either DIS or INPA. New fuel pump about 6 months ago and just checked pressure with a gauge while idling for 20 minutes, spot on. Fuel filter replaced about 30k miles ago.
Drove around with INPA in transmission mode and verified that the TCC and the appropriate solenoids were engaged or disengaged as required. There is a nice pdf online of all the technical workings of the 5L40e trans. I thought the TCC might not be working correctly but it shows engagement at freeway speeds and does not disengage until the car speed comes way down near a stop.
No codes for engine, trans, or ABS/DSC modules.
My daughter thinks the trans does not shift like it used to, but I drive it and it seems fine to me. Except of course when you try to accelerate and it has no power (not every time) until it downshifts.
Here is the link to the log files I ran, one at idle and two on the freeway during acceleration.
By the way the DME software has a date of 2008, so it was updated by the dealer.
I don't know if you guys have had any issues with OBD Fusion but it disconnects after about a minute of recording, then i reconnect and it is good again for about another minute. While idling it will stay connected as long as you need it to.

https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2...yuWfh6REBlY&e=
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Old 01-28-2020, 02:37 PM   #13
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You say you changed the cam position 'sensor'- did you change both?

I've had an intermittent exhaust cam sensor for a while- with a manual,
it's easy to feel when the ecu thinks it's not getting the sensor,
and it always comes back if I simply shut off the engine and restart.

one data point,
t
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Old 01-28-2020, 03:01 PM   #14
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I don't know if you guys have had any issues with OBD Fusion but it disconnects after about a minute of recording, then i reconnect and it is good again for about another minute. While idling it will stay connected as long as you need it to.
Are you on iPhone or Android? Are you using a WiFi elm327 dongle to connect with the phone? If you have Wifi, it might be trying to connect to passing hotspots as you drive around ... perhaps try disabling autoconnect. I use a bluetooth dongle with Android with no issues.

I checked the logs and I noticed there were 4 columns labeled "short term" and half of those were just zero. It looks like you are logging only short term trims right now. Double check the logging options in OBD fusion, and make sure to select Short term and Long term fuel trims for both bank 1 and 2.
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Old 01-28-2020, 03:03 PM   #15
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I'd replace the fuel filter/regulator and service the trans. Both had made noticeable difference towards performance on our xi. Noticed you replaced the f-filter 30k ago, but today's petrol quality is horrid. I actually replace ours about every 20k and get a noticeable improvement afterwards.
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Old 01-28-2020, 03:38 PM   #16
Nick DeZan
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For OBD Fusion i am using OBD/SX touchscan with USB cable directly into the laptop. The trans was serviced about 20k miles ago due to leaking orings at the wire harness connector area. I think i accidentally picked STFT for bank 2 and 3 instead of the LTFT for bank 1 and 2, need to reset those.
I have not changed the exhaust cam sensor since i have not gotten any codes and from i have read the intake sensor is the most important. I do have another used exhaust cam sensor so I might swap that out since it is easy to do.
I thought about the fuel filter possibility and even a defective fuel pump, but when I floor the throttle it pulls strong to redline not matter what gear. It is only the part throttle acceleration before the trans kicks down where there is basically no power. Would a loss in fuel flow or pressure show up as a lean condition on the fuel trims or the Lambda?
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Old 01-28-2020, 04:40 PM   #17
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For OBD Fusion i am using OBD/SX touchscan with USB cable directly into the laptop.

[snip]

Would a loss in fuel flow or pressure show up as a lean condition on the fuel trims or the Lambda?
So you are not using OBDFusion then? Not familiar with obd/sx and touchscan. Having a smartphone app and wireless dongle is just too convenient for gathering drivability data like this.

Yes, exactly, with all else being equal, a low fuel pressure or flow would cause lean condition that could show up in fuel trims and possibly in the pre-cat O2 sensor voltages (for the old "narrowband" sensors) if the fuel trims can't correct the air fuel mixture enough. A vacuum leak could also cause the same effect, especially at idle when vacuum is highest and the leak would represent a larger proportion of the engines airflow. This is why you want to get a good continuous log of data at a steady idle or a steady and flat highway run.
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Old 01-28-2020, 04:59 PM   #18
Nick DeZan
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I am using OBDwiz which is the same as TouchScan and is the same as OBDFusion.
https://www.obdsoftware.net/software/obdwiz
OBDFusion is just the android/apple version of TouchScan
I wanted to use my laptop wired directly from the OBD connector via USB.
For me viewing and working on the laptop is much easier than my smart phone.
My next step will be to replace the exhaust cam sensor and make a good log at idle and continuous speed.
thanks
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Old 01-28-2020, 09:55 PM   #19
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Low fuel pressure shows up in high fuel trims. I wouldn't expect to see lean on lambda at all, unless the DME is out of fuel trim, but that would throw a code. Lambda and DME react very quickly and you see this in STFT.

Logging update rates leave much to be desired, not mush you can do about that with OBD though.

Does timing hover around 25 at steady cruise? Seems low otherwise. Premium fuel?

Idle log must be right after a hot start, ignition timing would indicate so. Idle load appears high, are all loads off(blower, defrost, etc.)?

Fuel system goes code 4 on fuel cut so you should see that at the same time as full lean on lambda.
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Old 01-28-2020, 10:13 PM   #20
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......... Maybe your daughter let's her boyfriend hammer it. You wouldn't necessarily know about it.
Definitely a unique ending to an E46 post..... JUST following this thread as I'm really interested in following to resolution. Great narrative OP.

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