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M54 Head Bolt Options

47K views 42 replies 13 participants last post by  325TS1 
#1 ·
I'm looking into head bolt/stud options to do some reinforcement before my upcoming build.

so far I've found raceware bolts - pretty expensive at $300 a set with shipping, etc.

Has anyone found a less expensive upgrade? I'm not against drilling out and tapping for larger bolts, I just want to make sure it's worth the effort!

Anyone?
 
#3 ·
I have repeatedly had my time wasted by people INTENDING to do something, but never following through.

The people that contact me for advice in the MIDDLE of a project, I find are much more likely to use the advice that I give.

Most people put a turbo on a stock engine.

Very few people actually rebuild an M54B30 engine for boost.

If you are complaining about the cost of a $300 set of fasteners, you will find rebuilding an M54 very frustrating. Everything is expensive...
 
#4 ·
Sheesh. That was a very unhelpful response PEI. I think you've done great work and I really appreciate experienced based input. The last note I found by you was that you'd used raceware with success but that you were also had some 11mm units on the shelf that were custom. I guess nothing has changed there?

I've got a spare engine that I picked up and am putting on the stand this week to tear into. The block only has 115k on it, so I'm hoping to keep most of it there but am going to do some upgrades while I've got it opened up. I'm taking my time with the build, so my budget is very flexible.

It just seems like no-one has put much effort into stud alternatives AND it seems like we can do better. If I can find a stronger, cheaper option then I think that's a good thing. $300 a set should be a relatively easy bar to get below. The ARP studs in my ford big block were all of $12 each. Maybe there is no other option but I don't mind researching things.
 
#5 ·
For more than 10 years I have been giving advice to people on this, and many other forums.

There is no financial incentive other than the fact that I like to help people.

However, I'm at a point in my life where the value of my time has increased almost exponentially.

I put up a barrier of entry, to weed out people that will waste my time. Call it being unhelpful if you like; it is probably a fairly accurate statement.

I have repeatedly given advice on this topic; I feel it's fair to let people do the work to search for it.

Stock - up to 350hp
10mm studs - 600hp ($300)
11mm studs - Over 600hp ($400)

I'm typing this from a location that most couldn't be paid to visit....in an environment that most would consider "hostile".

I hope my explanation is "helpful".
 
#37 ·
For more than 10 years I have been giving advice to people on this, and many other forums.

There is no financial incentive other than the fact that I like to help people.

However, I'm at a point in my life where the value of my time has increased almost exponentially.

I put up a barrier of entry, to weed out people that will waste my time. Call it being unhelpful if you like; it is probably a fairly accurate statement.

I have repeatedly given advice on this topic; I feel it's fair to let people do the work to search for it.

Stock - up to 350hp
10mm studs - 600hp ($300)
11mm studs - Over 600hp ($400)

I'm typing this from a location that most couldn't be paid to visit....in an environment that most would consider "hostile".

I hope my explanation is "helpful".
Hello how are you sir does m50 ARP bolts and studs works on m54?
 
#6 ·
Thanks PEI. I'd found your sizing info before, but I'm really after parts sources here.
Some searching turned up an old thread with a set of custom ordered raceware M11x1.5 M54 head studs which are supposedly like the ones you used before.
It notes that the block needed to be time-serts to use them.

If we go larger with studs, do we need to go for timeserts?
Wouldn't timeserts actually address part of the problem if we use stock sized studs since they effectively increase the thread engagement size within the aluminum block?

The M52 sized time-sert is 1090, which is 24.5mm deep, time-sert also has a kit with 30mm deep inserts. This seems like what we'd want.
I looked over your M54 dimensions thread but never found a reference to the head bolt depth. I'll check it out when I pull the head off my project block.
 
#7 · (Edited)
Some interesting data I've put together.

I found a video in... arabic? that showed measurements of the block head bolt holes.
Threads start 6mm from the surface.
The hole is actually 46mm deep total.

Time-serts for head bolts appear to be 12L14. This material run 60,000psi tensile strength, but sheer for 12L14 is 11600 ksi = 11600000 psi!

Realoem puts the head bolts at M10x110 for the M54. Those bolts are 4.3 inches long in the threaded portion.

The ARP S52/M52 stud set is only 4.5 inches long with a lower thread that's .95 inches - that's just over 24mm of threaded rod.
However, considering that the ARP nut and washer is pretty tall, I'd bet that when they were used, the studs weren't even threaded all the way into the block.

I called ARP and bugged them a bit about possible studs.
Edit: ARP makes a 5.1 inch long M10 stud AM5.100-1LB, I didn't ask them about sets but they probably come in one.

ARP makes a M11 stud that's 5.35 inches long. It's a bit bastardized as it uses a standard nut up top to reduce cost.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/arp-atp5350-1lb/overview/
Singles are ARP ATP5.350-1LB at $15 each, but they sell a kit for hondas is ARP 208-5401 that includes 10 studs, washers and nuts for about $115 or so retail.
Add four more and we're still well under $200.
The rub - the threaded portion is about 1 inch long. Only 24.5mm of threads.

ARP also makes a M12 stud that's 5.4 inches long.
The part number for individuals is AU5.400-2LUB.
The 10 pack kit is ARP 204-4706 and it's made for audi/vw diesel. It's also made of ARP2000.

According to raceware the M10 stud set has approximately 30mm (1.18 inches) of thread on the block side and is 127mm (5 inches) long.
According to their web site, the hardware is rated for 205,000 psi tensile strength.
 
#8 ·
Talking to myself, but here's my opinion. I'm making it a separate post to keep it from getting lost in the data weeds.

1) Using M11 ARP studs combined with 30mm Time Serts seems like a winning combo to me.
This puts a bit of a compromise into the scenario with only 24mm of thread engagement from stud to time sert.
however, given the sheer rating for the time serts, I think we solve the problem by spreading the aluminum engagement load across the full 30mm time sert.
 
#9 ·
Most of the load on a fastener is distributed across the first 3 threads. The load drops off pretty fast after that....unless the fastener is being pushed on an angle...

I have never used an M11 stud without timcerts, but it has crossed my mind.

FYI, Top Fuel studs are I think 9/16" at the bottom, then taper to 1/2" at the top. Maybe I've got my sizing wrong, but they use the larger studs at the bottom to help with engagement, then the metal nut at the top holds the torque at smaller sizing.

This is kind of why I did the timcert on my block. You can't fit a 12mm stud through the M54 head.....not because of the stud size, but because the washer that sits under the nut would come into contact with the valve seats. (Look at a cylinder head to see what I mean) So 11mm is the max...and we can cheat by using a timcert on that to help with thread engagement into the block.

As far as I know, I am one of 2 people to use the custom 11mm studs from Raceware. (I actually requested them to be made)
 
#22 ·
Yes I used Arp lube and yes it should make a difference in the torque compared to dry threads or even oiled.

I actually did not get a box for the studs, they came in a bag so they're originally from another kit. Someone told me the S65 v8 bolts are the right length for the M54.

According to Realoem the lenghts are:
M50 M10x95mm
M54 M10x110mm
S65 M10x115mm

The difference between M50 and M54 studs is the threaded part that goes in the block is 15mm longer. So some people use M50 arp studs on M54 and usually end up pulling the threads on one or more of them.
 
#23 ·
The difference between M50 and M54 studs is the threaded part that goes in the block is 15mm longer. So some people use M50 arp studs on M54 and usually end up pulling the threads on one or more of them.
Yes that's the reason why I didn't order the ARP M50 kit but the ARP Nissan VQ35 studs instead.
So will see when I will receive it if the thread part is enough.

The big-sert lenght is 25mm and the first none thread part of the block is 7 mm, So I will need at least 32 mm ARP thread studs lenght.
 
#27 ·
I think it's too early for that, will wait to drive some kms to be sure that they will hold the cylinder head.
But for sure I don't regret using studs instead of bolt, it seems much stronger that way.
Still when I went to torque the cylinder head, it took me a lot of will, didn't want to live the moment where you feel the block thread failing ...

And to be honest I won't have paid the extra for raceware, I put way too much money in this rebuilt.

Will see
 
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