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Old 03-17-2019, 08:29 AM   #1
stevemd
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Reusability of 150k Dual Mass Flywheel

Pics below of my 150k DM Flywheel and the 100K clutch disc. 2004 325xit 5 spd.

The disc surface of the flywheel is pretty smooth though some heat spots.

I had heard there is supposed to be some measurable play between the dual mass halves to help determine reusability or toss of the flywheel but Bentley has f*** all to say about that, indeed no mention of the flywheel at all.

Appreciate any advice.

Also I would appreciate feedback on the Valeo single mass kit if anyone has used it and can comment.

Thanks!
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Old 03-17-2019, 09:23 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevemd View Post
Pics below of my 150k DM Flywheel and the 100K clutch disc. 2004 325xit 5 spd.

The disc surface of the flywheel is pretty smooth though some heat spots.

I had heard there is supposed to be some measurable play between the dual mass halves to help determine reusability or toss of the flywheel but Bentley has f*** all to say about that, indeed no mention of the flywheel at all.

Appreciate any advice.

Also I would appreciate feedback on the Valeo single mass kit if anyone has used it and can comment.

Thanks!
So long as the teeth are ok and there is no warping you're fine. Assuming it's sitting correctly on the crankshaft you can buy or borrow a DTI with a magnetic base and check the runout.

Having said that I recall reading somewhere that the dual mass flywheels are a pain and that you should take the opportunity to replace it with a single mass.

Last edited by RayPooley; 03-17-2019 at 09:31 AM.
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Old 03-17-2019, 09:38 AM   #3
Effduration
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In my limited observations (10 people or so) more than 50% of those who have switched to a SMF in a non-racing application regretted doing so due to the noise or chatter of the SMF and/or new clutch disc

I recently re-used a dual mass flywheel DMF with approx 150k on it, about 3 months and 2k miles ago. I had two to choose from. I used a new LUK clutch kit. I've had no problems since install.

You need to measure the rotational play in the DMF. Check my facts, but I think the max is 5 teeth from full right to full left or vice versa. There is a good YouTube on this issue, please search for it.

If there is excessive front/back play in the DMF, that would also be a reason to replace it.

Last edited by Effduration; 03-17-2019 at 09:39 AM.
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Old 03-17-2019, 12:39 PM   #4
SidewaysGreg
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Reusability of 150k Dual Mass Flywheel

Zero issues with my SMF (10lbs), minimal chatter (have to really listen to it to hear anything at all).

For dmf it totally depends on the play. If itís moving more than 1/2Ē without resistance Iíd change it.


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Last edited by SidewaysGreg; 03-17-2019 at 12:40 PM.
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Old 03-17-2019, 06:18 PM   #5
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The problem with DMF is that there is just more stuff go wrong, especially at your mileage. A SMF is just fine; I've converted two e46's, an e30, and two Mini Coopers to SMF. I usually use the Valeo kit. No problem with chatter as long as you use as stock-ish flywheel. I've used a UUC lightweight flywheel in one e46 and it was fine, but did have a bit of chatter at idle.
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Old 03-18-2019, 09:37 AM   #6
stevemd
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Thanks for the replies. I will throw the DM back on the end of the crank and check for play and warp w/dial indicator.

May lean towards the Valeo SM kit as I believe that is a 'stock-ish' flywheel. Feel free to suggest other SM FWs more stock-ish if they exist and don't cost an arm and leg. I'm fine with ponying up the $$ for the Valeo kit.

Last edited by stevemd; 03-18-2019 at 09:40 AM.
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Old 03-18-2019, 04:00 PM   #7
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Any history on the old parts? Why opening up the tranny for checking this?

For normal driving I think you just replace the clutch disk if the DMF rotational play is less than 20mm at the circumference moving them with hands. Why switch to SMF -- cheaper? The high torque engine was designed to work with DMF to minimize shock load to the transmission internal parts.
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Old 03-18-2019, 05:51 PM   #8
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Any history on the old parts? Why opening up the tranny for checking this?

For normal driving I think you just replace the clutch disk if the DMF rotational play is less than 20mm at the circumference moving them with hands. Why switch to SMF -- cheaper? The high torque engine was designed to work with DMF to minimize shock load to the transmission internal parts.
I wouldn't call the 2.5L or 3.0L engine "high torque". If I recall, the DMF came into existence because it was easier for inexperienced drivers to shift smoothly. It doesn't really have any advantage once you have a little experience with a manual transmission. The problem with using an old DMF is that if the mechanism fails, you have to pull the tranny again to change it, so it makes more sense to just change the flywheel when you do the clutch disc.
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Old 03-18-2019, 07:12 PM   #9
Geo31
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ECS has the DMF on say for less than $400. Why take the risk on an expensive (or PITA) job? You can get a complete kit for a little over $500.
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Old 03-18-2019, 07:31 PM   #10
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It is relatively rare to see DMF failures not due to worn out clutch and/or abuse, so chances are if the flywheel is ok now, it is going to last.

This is why Sapote's question above is important - what's the reason the flywheel is out of the car?
The car needs a new clutch, or something else unrelated, i.e. engine swap?
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Old 03-18-2019, 08:09 PM   #11
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I did the valeo kit while replacing an engine due to the head warping (123K miles) on a project car. It was a 'while we have it apart' thing. It did chatter at first and was quite noisy, but as it wore in (less than 3000 miles) the chatter seems to have gone away. If you do the valeo kit, get the clutch delay valve delete fitting as well --- it really helped give the clutch a much better feel...

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Old 03-18-2019, 09:02 PM   #12
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Your DMF is fine. I'd hit the surface with some red scotchbrite - all of those dark "hot spots" will blend in and you'll realize that they are mostly composed of disc material that is just trapped in the micro-grooves of the friction surface.
As for rotational play, don't be scared into a new flywheel from watching BavAuto's video. Otto is in the business of selling parts and has a habit of displaying properly functioning parts and calling them defective, the DMF rotation is a great example. He's been spooking ppl on here to buy a SMF for years.
Want to know why all DMFs have 4 degrees of rotational play built in?!? Well just go over to the manufacturer's site and watch them explain how it is built.
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Old 03-19-2019, 06:32 AM   #13
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+1 on this... Otto's video on the Dual Mass Flywheel was inaccurate. The rotational play shown in his video, which he says means it's worn out, seems quite normal. Many of his other videos are quite good.

Brand new DMF's come with 3 teeth of rotational play in them.
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Old 03-19-2019, 10:30 AM   #14
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I am one of the several examples of people who regretted a SMF. I installed the valeo kit after doing a manual swap. Great feel, but it puts a lot of strain on other components and I got an annoying amount of chatter. I went to the considerable expense and bother of putting in a luk dmf and clutch kit 12 months after.
Personally I would stick with a Dmf, thatís how Bmw designed the car and all the driveline components around it


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Old 03-19-2019, 12:19 PM   #15
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If you want a precise spec on the allowable rotation, Luk has it on their website. I opted for a new DMF.
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Old 03-22-2019, 01:31 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by RayPooley View Post
So long as the teeth are ok and there is no warping you're fine. Assuming it's sitting correctly on the crankshaft you can buy or borrow a DTI with a magnetic base and check the runout.

Having said that I recall reading somewhere that the dual mass flywheels are a pain and that you should take the opportunity to replace it with a single mass.
You should replace it with another dual mass one, they are not a pain, just a little more expensive, however they are a lot more expensive if you have to do it twice like i did since I used a UUC one.

I repeat

DO NOT USE A UUC single mass rattle maker.

I put one in my e36 m3 it was super annoying and the m5 clutch wore out in 20k

I then put a new dual mass one in and was really happy for lots of miles.
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Old 03-23-2019, 01:19 PM   #17
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I have an ACT single mass set up that has been great for years. I thought that the DMF was to soften the driveline lash and make the car feel "Smoother". It also dampens innacurate and clumsy clutch behaviour. The SMF feels more direct, but if you go too light, or too cheap you are asking for trouble in a daily drver. Really light flywheels are for track cars that dont see traffic lights, spend most of their day close to redline, and dont care about excess noise.
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Old 03-27-2019, 02:53 PM   #18
stevemd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Megalocnus View Post
It is relatively rare to see DMF failures not due to worn out clutch and/or abuse, so chances are if the flywheel is ok now, it is going to last.

This is why Sapote's question above is important - what's the reason the flywheel is out of the car?
The car needs a new clutch, or something else unrelated, i.e. engine swap?
A lot more good feedback, thanks!

Reason the driveline is apart is that I am swapping in a M54B30. Retaining the 5 speed.
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Old 03-27-2019, 03:03 PM   #19
stevemd
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Oh, by the way, I thought that was odd wear on the clutch disc, tapered from outside in on both side of the disc. It only has 44k miles on it as the clutch assembly was replaced by PO's shop at 144k.
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Old 04-22-2019, 05:55 PM   #20
stevemd
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If you want a precise spec on the allowable rotation, Luk has it on their website. I opted for a new DMF.
As a general reference, non-auto make specific, Luk says up to 6mm. I measured 6.5mm and about 2.5 teeth in rotation. Easy to rotate. I thought the halves are spring-loaded and would require some force to rotate but I am a DMF noob.

No axial play to mention.
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