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Old 02-06-2014, 01:39 PM   #21
Slupe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfoj View Post
I recall the MAF air filter can be opened up and cleaned?

As a test, you could leave the filter off and see what happens, but I think you can easily clean it?

Make sure the connector is fully plugged in and the terminals are tight.

This is also a 2 way street, garbage in = garbage out.

You may also disconnect the pump output hose and see if the pump runs longer.

If for some reason the pump output is restricted/clogged, the the input MAF will not register enough airflow and will likely cause the pump to shut down early.
So over lunch, I was able disconnect the pump output hose and start the car. The pump ran and was blowing hard (like a hair dryer hard...) for 5 to 10 seconds, then shut off. To me, this rules out any clogs on the input or output side - I was getting serious air output, but the pump still shut down. I am back to the relay - could that be providing power for a few seconds and then kicking off? How could I test this?
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Old 02-06-2014, 02:03 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Slupe View Post
So over lunch, I was able disconnect the pump output hose and start the car. The pump ran and was blowing hard (like a hair dryer hard...) for 5 to 10 seconds, then shut off. To me, this rules out any clogs on the input or output side - I was getting serious air output, but the pump still shut down. I am back to the relay - could that be providing power for a few seconds and then kicking off? How could I test this?
Doubt is is the relay.

Either the new MAF is bad or wiring from the MAF may be bad?

You could try the relay, however, I would expect if the relay is bad the pump might not even start up?

The other option is to clear the codes, make sure the Emission Readiness Monitors are not ready and then just drive the car for a few days.

Many times the DME behaves a bit differently shortly after codes have been set. Sometimes it take a number of start cycles for everything to get back in sync.
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Old 02-06-2014, 04:11 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by shanneba View Post
If you have a code for the secondary Air Injection, it will not start the pump.
The info below is for the older M54 MS43 may not exactly apply to the M54 with MS45 ECUs (the MS45 ECU has a different SAP system with a MAF sensor)

SECONDARY AIR INJECTION MONITORING
In order to reduce HC and CO emissions while the engine is warming up, BMW implemented
the use of a Secondary Air Injection System. Immediately following a cold engine
start (-10 - 40°C)
fresh air/oxygen is injected directly into the exhaust manifold. By injecting
oxygen into the exhaust manifold:
• The warm up time of the catalyst is reduced
• Oxidation of the hydrocarbons is accelerated
The activation period of the air pump can vary depending on engine type and operating
conditions.


Conditions for Secondary Air Pump Activation:
*NOTE: Below -10°C the air injection pump is activated only as a preventive measure to
blow out any accumulated water vapor that could freeze in the system.
33
Engine Management Systems
REQUIREMENTS STATUS/CONDITION MS43

Oxygen sensor Open Loop
Oxygen sensor heating Active
Engine coolant temperature -10 to 40ºC*
Engine bad?? Predefined Range
Engine speed Predefined Range
Fault Codes No Secondary Air Faults “currently present”


*NOTE: Below -10°C the air injection pump is activated only as a preventive measure to
blow out any accumulated water vapor that could freeze in the system.
I am very curious about the -10C limit. It was near 0F this morning and is still only 5F, so well below that both times I started my car. Can anyone confirm if this would still apply to the newer E46 SAP setup with the MAF? And if so, how long would it run? Maybe I need to wait and troubleshoot after it warms up to something more humane. This winter has sucked.
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Old 02-08-2014, 10:00 PM   #24
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So my issue turned out to be the check valve. The valve was stuck closed, so the MAF would sense the lack of air flow and shut off the pump. This gives you the same symptoms as a failed MAF. I replaced the check valve and did a few drive cycles today and the car is emissions ready. Wish me luck!
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Old 02-09-2014, 04:49 AM   #25
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So my issue turned out to be the check valve. The valve was stuck closed, so the MAF would sense the lack of air flow and shut off the pump. This gives you the same symptoms as a failed MAF. I replaced the check valve and did a few drive cycles today and the car is emissions ready. Wish me luck!
Interesting the check valve was stuck closed. But I would be curious what happens in this case. Assuming the check valves is used every time the car is started cold, I find it interesting that the check would get stuck, meaning it worked fine yesterday and today it is stuck. On cars with vacuum operated SAP Kombi valves I can see if the vacuum hose was cracked and the valve has not operated for a while then I can see these sticking.

Yes, I can see this happening, but could you tell what caused it? Carbon? Rust? Other?

Sorry the check valve ended up being the issue, but in my case, I just had a hard time believing that anything other than the MAF would work one day and not the next. I also decided that the MAF was more likely to be a point of failure than the check valve as well, so I rolled the dice and replaced the MAF and that solved my problem.
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Old 02-09-2014, 07:09 AM   #26
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JFOJ - No worries. I wouldn't have known how to get started without your help and I am sure I still spent less on the two parts than if I had taken it to the shop. I am just trying to help the next guy :-)

As for the check valve, you really can't see inside even when it was off the car, but it was definitely seized up. All I know is I could blow into the new one and hear a slight click and air would flow, but I could not get the old one to do the same. Maybe it was failing intermittently at the beginning because I was getting an intermittent SES, but it had definitely failed completely at the end because I would get the pending error on the first cold start and the hard error on the second.
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Old 02-09-2014, 07:38 AM   #27
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JFOJ - No worries. I wouldn't have known how to get started without your help and I am sure I still spent less on the two parts than if I had taken it to the shop. I am just trying to help the next guy :-)

As for the check valve, you really can't see inside even when it was off the car, but it was definitely seized up. All I know is I could blow into the new one and hear a slight click and air would flow, but I could not get the old one to do the same. Maybe it was failing intermittently at the beginning because I was getting an intermittent SES, but it had definitely failed completely at the end because I would get the pending error on the first cold start and the hard error on the second.
Thanks for the response. Totally agree that going the DIY route, even if you spend extra on a part you may not need, the shop may have done the exact same thing and charged you far more for parts and labor for 2 operations anyway.

I keep most of my old sensors anyway for testing and/or something happens, maybe my old sensor will be better than a hard failed sensor.

In your case, you now have a spare MAF in case your replacement fails. Not sure if I would put the original back on for now, or leave it as is?

I glad you did get things sorted, I know there have been only a few of the Kombi/check valve failures so it tends to be a bit more rare, however, in colder climates where short drives may be taken, possibly condensation can build up and cause problems with the check valve?

I guess one way to check this system would be to use a piece of heater hose on the MAF input of the pump input and try to blow through the system without taking apart too many things?

But I also think the key on this MAF based SAP system is the pump will only run for about 5 seconds if there is either a bad MAF or restriction in the system.

Maybe disconnecting the pump output hose would be the quickest and easiest test? If the pump runs for more than 5 seconds with the output hose disconnected, then the check valve may be restricted, if the pump still only runs for 5 seconds with the output hose disconnected then the MAF is the likely problem. The key here is how long will the pump run with the output hose disconnected? You mentioned maybe as long as 10 seconds, not the normal continuous 90 seconds, but seems maybe longer than when the MAF is bad?

I try to find simple and easy ways to test the system, using the system and parts rather than relying on other tools, parts or props to get the testing done.
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Last edited by jfoj; 02-09-2014 at 07:41 AM.
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Old 02-09-2014, 08:23 AM   #28
Slupe
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Thanks for the response. Totally agree that going the DIY route, even if you spend extra on a part you may not need, the shop may have done the exact same thing and charged you far more for parts and labor for 2 operations anyway.

I keep most of my old sensors anyway for testing and/or something happens, maybe my old sensor will be better than a hard failed sensor.

In your case, you now have a spare MAF in case your replacement fails. Not sure if I would put the original back on for now, or leave it as is?

I glad you did get things sorted, I know there have been only a few of the Kombi/check valve failures so it tends to be a bit more rare, however, in colder climates where short drives may be taken, possibly condensation can build up and cause problems with the check valve?

I guess one way to check this system would be to use a piece of heater hose on the MAF input of the pump input and try to blow through the system without taking apart too many things?

But I also think the key on this MAF based SAP system is the pump will only run for about 5 seconds if there is either a bad MAF or restriction in the system.

Maybe disconnecting the pump output hose would be the quickest and easiest test? If the pump runs for more than 5 seconds with the output hose disconnected, then the check valve may be restricted, if the pump still only runs for 5 seconds with the output hose disconnected then the MAF is the likely problem. The key here is how long will the pump run with the output hose disconnected? You mentioned maybe as long as 10 seconds, not the normal continuous 90 seconds, but seems maybe longer than when the MAF is bad?

I try to find simple and easy ways to test the system, using the system and parts rather than relying on other tools, parts or props to get the testing done.
I did put my old MAF back in while I had everything apart, so I have the new as a spare.

I think you could remove the output hose from the pump and leave it connected to the check valve and test it. I didn't try that, but I am not sure why it wouldn't work. Maybe a bit dirty, but would save lots of disasembly

During my trouble shooting, I did remove the output hose from the pump and did a cold start. It still only runs for about 5 to 10 seconds and it throws a different code for a large leak in the SAP system. That was my clue that the MAF was working since it behaved the same, but gave two different codes.
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