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Old 04-17-2013, 09:09 AM   #1
vbfronkis
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Rust. Need help & advice

Firstly, I love my car. Absolutely love it. I plan to keep her for the long haul and am not concerned with the "costs more to fix than it's worth" argument.

I've got some rust that I'd like to get taken care of now before it's worse.

This is on the rear of the car to the side of the tailgate window, on the rear quarter panel:


From what I can tell, it's totally surface rust. There's a very similar spot on the tailgate itself where there's surface rust and the paint has started flaking ever so slightly.

My bigger concern is this:


This is inside the rear passenger side at the door sill. I'd like to get the sill guards off so I can see how bad it is under the sill guard as I assume there's some under there. This spot is a bit "crunchy" when I poke it with my finger. Anyone know how to get those guards off? My Bentley manual is surprisingly silent on the matter.

Here's what's running through my mind:

1. I'm likely looking at some sort of re-spray on the rear of the car after the surface rust is treated. This bit should be sprayed professionally, I believe.
2. The rust in the door sills I'm concerned about, but if I can stop the rust (some sort of rust-stop solution?) I'll be happy because it's in a non-visible area of the car (pretty much) and I'd be willing to have a go at a treatment and re-spray with some paint-matched aerosol myself there.
3. I have no idea what the above will cost to have an auto body shop do it. Is it such a cost that I should just consider a full-body respray?? Should I go balls deep and re-spray it my dream color? (Alpine White)

Input mondo appreciated. Thanks!!
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Old 04-17-2013, 09:37 AM   #2
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I had the same issue with rust on the rear quarter panel where it meets the bumper. Had it professionally repaired by someone who restores rusty classic cars for a living. Cost me $500 (rust removal, treatment and repaint). 3 years later rust came back. I decided not to waste my money on it anymore. I know that the guy did a good job, it's just there is no guarantee with rust.

Last edited by hanna; 04-17-2013 at 09:39 AM.
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Old 04-17-2013, 09:40 AM   #3
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I know of a very good rust preventative and rust stop. Its POR-15. Its a thick liquid. Its black and totally paintable. They actually want you to put it on top of rust. It adheres better to rust. It will stop the rust spot from getting any bigger. It will also prevent any more rust from starting. I used it on the undercarriage of my classic chevy. Mine is flat black, but you said that you're ok with painting it to blend in to the rest of the car. What I would do is get a cheap $1 paint brush from home depot and apply some por-15 to the areas of rust. Then I would mask off an area and spray paint the por-15 treated area to blend in. Express paint sells color match paint for any car. You can buy anything from a pint of paint to paint the whole car to a detail paint stick to use for scratches or chips. I hope this info helps you in your decision on what to do
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Old 04-17-2013, 09:41 AM   #4
vbfronkis
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Originally Posted by hanna View Post
I had the same issue with rust on the rear quarter panel where it meets the bumper. Had it professionally repaired by someone who restores rusty classic cars for a living. Cost me $500 (rust removal, treatment and repaint). 3 years later rust came back. I decided not to waste my money on it anymore. I know that the guy did a good job, it's just there is no guarantee with rust.
How deep was your rust for that cost? I'm not too concerned about it coming back on the back of the car as the spots that are there were there when I bought it over a year ago. I figure that perhaps with the tailgate open, someone scraped the edge when putting something in.

The one I'm more concerned with coming back is the door sill one as I figure water likely travels there with the door shut.
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Old 04-17-2013, 09:42 AM   #5
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I know of a very good rust preventative and rust stop. Its POR-15. Its a thick liquid. Its black and totally paintable. They actually want you to put it on top of rust. It adheres better to rust. It will stop the rust spot from getting any bigger. It will also prevent any more rust from starting. I used it on the undercarriage of my classic chevy. Mine is flat black, but you said that you're ok with painting it to blend in to the rest of the car. What I would do is get a cheap $1 paint brush from home depot and apply some por-15 to the areas of rust. Then I would mask off an area and spray paint the por-15 treated area to blend in. Express paint sells color match paint for any car. You can buy anything from a pint of paint to paint the whole car to a detail paint stick to use for scratches or chips. I hope this info helps you in your decision on what to do
This is EXACTLY what I was looking for. I remember watching a British show called Wheeler Dealers (learned TONS of stuff from Edd China) that he used something like that. It cures to the rust and actually stops the oxidation reaction so it won't get worse. I just couldn't remember what it was called.

Now to figure out how to get those sill guards off...
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Old 04-17-2013, 10:29 AM   #6
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Cure rust? The only way to "cure" rust is to cut it out and weld in new metal. You can cover it up. You may even be able to prevent the surface from rusting more, but behind the panel it's going to keep spreading. It will come back.

Rust is a cancer. And it's always worse than it looks on the outside. Rust repair is not easy. There's a reason why many shops won't warranty rust work.
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Old 04-17-2013, 10:31 AM   #7
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I meant cure from a chemical process, not like "voila! magic!"
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Old 04-17-2013, 10:44 AM   #8
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Your door sill needs new metal. If it's crunchy it's completely done. And if you take a grinding wheel to that area you're going to find it's way worse than you have anticipated.

Take it to a shop and get it done right otherwise you're going to be wasting your money repainting it.

This is if you're indeed keeping the car for the "long haul" as you stated.
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Old 04-17-2013, 10:45 AM   #9
vbfronkis
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Your door sill needs new metal. If it's crunchy it's completely done. And if you take a grinding wheel to that area you're going to find it's way worse than you have anticipated.

Take it to a shop and get it done right otherwise you're going to be wasting your money repainting it.
Any idea what I'm looking at cost-wise?
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Old 04-17-2013, 10:48 AM   #10
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It wouldn't make sense to repaint the whole car because of those small areas of rust. The one at the door sill is rusted through. The rusted metal has to be cut out. One of the problems with treating the rust is that depending on where it is, it's difficult to get to the other side of the panel to apply the rust converter, that's one possible reason for the rust to return.
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Old 04-17-2013, 11:37 AM   #11
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Love the car,yes. If in good shape, looks and mechanical, take it to a place to have it done professionally (assuming it will be under $1000)
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Old 04-17-2013, 11:38 AM   #12
vbfronkis
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Love the car,yes. If in good shape, looks and mechanical, take it to a place to have it done professionally (assuming it will be under $1000)
Aside from these few spots, the paint and body work is in incredible shape for a car that was made almost 13 years ago.
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Old 04-17-2013, 11:39 AM   #13
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Your easiest fastest and chesapest way is to go the POR-15 route. The proper way is to cut the rust out repair with new metal and paint. But you always run into the time, money and can you blend the newly painted spot into your existing paint. POR-15 costs under $100 for a gallon(all you'll need is a pint) and the color match spray paint costs around $20. Its not the best way of handling rust, but its the cheapest, easiest way and you can do it at home yourself.
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Old 04-17-2013, 11:46 AM   #14
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shoot, you can even go as far as to buy like 220 wet sandpaper and sand the affected areas first. So that after you apply the paint and por-15, it will look like there was never any rust. I mean, what could sandpaper cost you, under $5. I'm talking about fixing all the rust spots on your car for under $100. If you take your time and do it right, it will look like you had it professionally done. I dont work at a body shop, but my guess to fix the rust spots, you're looking at a few hundred dollars as opposed to under $100
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Old 04-17-2013, 11:47 AM   #15
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shoot, you can even go as far as to buy like 220 wet sandpaper and sand the affected areas first. So that after you apply the paint and por-15, it will look like there was never any rust. I mean, what could sandpaper cost you, under $5. I'm talking about fixing all the rust spots on your car for under $100. If you take your time and do it right, it will look like you had it professionally done. I dont work at a body shop, but my guess to fix the rust spots, you're looking at a few hundred dollars as opposed to under $100
And the rust will continue to spread and you will have completely wasted your time. Now if it's just surface rust around the window and you can get rid of all of it (it's rusting from the top) then cool.

That door sill is simply going to have to be cut out. There's probably more rust than metal in the worst parts held together with paint.
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Old 04-17-2013, 02:50 PM   #16
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POR 15 paint is not a rust neutralizer. It is just paint. The POR system recommends treating the rust first with an acidic metal prep which will etch the surface and convert existing rust to a non-iron oxide which can then be painted with POR 15 paint. The paint is thicker than most and goes on heavy so that just buys some time before the rust comes back. I've used it on previous vehicles with mixed results. The rust always comes back.
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Old 04-17-2013, 03:00 PM   #17
vbfronkis
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Ok. I don't really want to address it twice if I don't have to. Looks like I'll be getting some estimates.
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Old 04-17-2013, 03:21 PM   #18
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POR 15 paint is not a rust neutralizer. It is just paint. The POR system recommends treating the rust first with an acidic metal prep which will etch the surface and convert existing rust to a non-iron oxide which can then be painted with POR 15 paint. The paint is thicker than most and goes on heavy so that just buys some time before the rust comes back. I've used it on previous vehicles with mixed results. The rust always comes back.
I like this product because I can get it into hard to reach areas.

http://www.amazon.com/Dupli-Color-RF.../dp/B001DKR4BE
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Old 05-05-2013, 11:01 PM   #19
Sixracer
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Rust. Need help & advice

Por-15 is awesome.

Just discovered some nasty surface rust on the inside of the lower front corner of my door panel. Plan is wire brush, then Dremel/power drill with sanding bit. Key is to remove anything that isn't metallic shiny. Black, brown means keep going. Then I usually hit it with this for good measure: http://www.amazon.com/Permatex-81756...s=rust+remover

Por15 is great but for a small spot like yours I would probably just go with a layer of touch up paint. For my door panel I think I'll try Por15 then cover it in couch up paint.

A nice coat of wax 1-2 a year will prevent future rust and allow you to catch things early while you are up close and personal with your body work.


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Old 06-04-2013, 04:30 PM   #20
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So for anyone keeping up at home, I went out and got 2 estimates today to take care of the rust. One place quoted $900 and the other was $1200. The cheaper place is actually rated better with local reputation and I think I'll go with them. It's to handle all the rust in the door jam, the tailgate and the rear quarter panel.
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