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DIY: 5HP19 Transmission: Selector Switch

81K views 68 replies 14 participants last post by  leibniz86 
#1 · (Edited)
Selector switch

Link to other parts of the project
Project ZF 5HP19 transmission

On the side of the transmission is a large switch. This is what tells the car which gear has been selected. You may need to replace this if it fails, or if you are like me, you will want to pull it apart, find out what is wrong with it and fix it.

If it fails, you will get an OBD code saying that the switch is giving an invalid value, and the transmission will go into limp mode (stuck in 4th gear). Unfortunately I know this because my wife’s Audi (which has a 5HP19 transmission) had this issue. Fortunately for BMW owners, the switch is easily accessible from under the car. On the Audi it’s a nightmare but that’s another story. I think I’ve mentioned before in other posts that the BMW is far easier to work on than the Audi, and a miles better car. I’ll mention it again. Our problem was fixed by having the engine off, but the ignition turned on, and then running the gear lever back and forth through all the gears over and over about a hundred times. The car hadn’t been started for about 6 months (due to us living overseas) and I think some of the contacts maybe got some moisture in them and corroded a little. Who knows? It now works, and I didn’t have to pay Audi $800 for a new switch, and about $1500 in labour to fix it. Did I also mention that Audi charge about twice as much for the same parts as BMW?

If you do have a problem with the switch, here are some photos that might help in pulling it apart and fixing it. Disconnect the gear select cable and then remove the switch. Unfortunately the switch is riveted together. Drill the rivet heads off, and then knock them out. To put it back together you can rivet it if you like, or do what I did. Get some small nuts/bolts and with a little loctite have it back like new. Don’t worry about the heads of the bolts sticking out, there is plenty of room on each side of the switch for the other components that are around it.

Having now pulled a few of these switches apart it seems there are two different varieties. On the outside they look the same, but internally they are very different. The earlier variant looks like the images below. The later variant has a number of wiper arms that swipe across brass strips that give the indications of gear selection. Opening and closing the switch is identical, but the wiper variant can generally be fixed by cleaning away some of the grease that restricts connection and bending the arms slightly so they give better contact.





























 

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#28 ·
Roshman, your call on whether you replace or fix the old one. Fixing will cost you close to nothing and is a pretty simple DIY. Getting it off is most of the battle, and you have to do this for both methods. It will be like new once you are done.

Furlan, regards the low voltage battery. I suspect when voltage is low, a failing switch is going to show up earlier. Removing and cleaning is always going to be required rather than just replacing the battery.
 
#30 ·
ok



Et - jjrichar
Thank you for the feedback. I've had one heck of a time with the transition to this new gear box. It can be a bit frustrating when communicating to various shops or tech in the area, and the trans installer seems to have grown an attitude when I addressed this bs with him. Sometimes I find great work, or can manage the little stuff on my own. My biggest issue is I do not have a lift to get the exaust out of the way to perform this labor. However, my exhaust guy is very reasonable and may be able to lend a hand getting this switch pulled off. I also have a neighbor who knows the e46 well that does have a short lift in his flat. So, I'm not throwing in the towel just yet. I'm a computer guy by trade and fairly new restoring the 46. This forum has been a lifesaver and a great learning tool.
 
#32 · (Edited)
I'll start over with this issue here. Please excuse the length, and not to hi-jack this thread. Thanks.

First - jjrichar.. You are correct about the exhaust. I am mistaken about mentioning having to remove it to get to the switch. My bad.
I did this much yesterday... Returned the car to the local BMW dealer to confirm the issue is the switch. Another reason I went there is because they have a new switch in stock that is supposed to work on my gear box. As a courtesy, the dealer took the car back in to run the SW scan. At that time, and throughout the day, the car was operating normal for the most part. I did notice a couple of times the dash indication may not have been "indicating" correctly..yet the car ran issue free.

Instead of returning home and back, while the dealer was looking at the car, I test drove 3 slightly used goodies they had on the lot under 30 Gs. They had a sharp aqua-marine looking 440? or 435? coupe 8 speed with a 6.. I really liked. I didnt buy it though, cuz they won't come off the 28.5 asking. A customer also has the extact same car as mine in the shop there that looks brand spanking. I asked the advisor to ask the owner if he/she wants to sell it and at whatever cost.

Back to my minor dilemma. The BMW shop paged me back to the serve desk. They seemed to appear that my 46 may be ready to be set to pasture and that the Olympus aka Oh-Limp-Us ....or whatever the new Software system is that they use.... seems to point to internal issues and external issues cleary with this new-to-me gearbox. Codes " 03C / 072 " TRANSMISSION SWITCH & STEPTRONIC SWITCH. I was skeptical, because I know the SW still reads 2 internal and 2 external codes. They also seem to think I may need to attend to the valve body or EKG? Regardless, I have the snapshot of the diag screen and will post it shortly. I see now, that I will go ahead and attempt to resolve this myself. It appears the 3 places I have taken it to may be scared to touch anything and open up liability.

My question to these shops, including the dealer, is.. why wouldn't you just install the switch and charge me the hour or two, have me initial a "we aren't liable" if this doesn't resolve your issue clause, and then send me on my merry way? At this point I will proceed with doing this myself, as advised. Instead of worrying about the condition of the vavle body and the other end of the shift cable...let's proceed with the easy stuff coming up on the Software Prog and see if another flash clears these other codes. The young lad at the dealer does believe it's an EKG or internal issue as well...and we shall see if we prove him incorrect. I'll give him 4 stars, since he did seem intelligent and concerned. He also showed me how to access the other end of the cable at the shift lever. He mentioned nothing appears out of the norm there. I won't debate the lad. I left the shop with a fresh wash and a $0 bill, so I can't complain. And, I really didn't notice a continuing indicator issue. Maybe slightly, such as a slow response in change from P to D.

This new dealership has regained my trust now. I had major issues with the head service Honcho early on when they first opened for business. He was canned along with other Advisors recently. My gearbox installer also tells me he's keeping my trans core since he already rebuilt it. He can kiss my A double SS. As a footnote... I sometimes get pushback as to why don't I just fix stuff myself? Some of this stuff I can do myself, some of it I need help because two of my four fingers were cut pretty bad when I was a youngster and they don't want to operate or grip so well. I also need to invest in a couple of decent ramps.
 

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#33 ·
That sounds like the dealership doesn't understand the transmission. This is pretty typical of most dealerships, as they never actually work on the transmissions. In the 6 speed transmissions that followed in the years after ours, the TCM was inside the transmission, so you could have 'internal' codes as they describe. The 5HP19 has only basic electronics on the inside. If it's working normally most of the time and then having a glitch that throws a code, it isn't going to be anything to do with the valve body. It's some electrical short or something like that creating the problem. If you have switch codes, fixing the switch or cleaning the contacts on the plugs to the transmission will fix the problem 99 times out of a hundred.

Personal opinion. If a dealership says the solution to fixing a problem they don't know how to solve is for me to buy another car from them, I will give them the forks and tell them to FO. To me this behaviour is unconscionable, but seems to be commonplace around the world these days.
 
#34 · (Edited)
jjrichar
I got the new switch in hand now, and will install it when I get the time. For now, the issue has gone away. Not sure if this is from flashing the system again.
I appreciate your feedback here. Plus, I agree with you about the inner workings of the dealership game. I'm sure they would rather sell me a newer unit. I took it upon myself to kick some tires while waiting, just to get a better feel of some models I have either rented or that might be in my price range.. should I hope to upgrade one day.
 
#36 ·
lhendrick, can you post a photo of the problem. On the project transmission the switch is bolted to the transmission housing with screws. It isn't nuts that fasten to threaded post. Are you saying that your transmission is different? The parts list has screws.
 
#39 ·
Can you confirm the bit that has broken off is what I call the 'shaft' in the first photo at the start of this thread?

If so, I'm not going to sugar coat it. What has happened isn't good, but the transmission definitely doesn't have to come out to fix. It will take a bit of work. Take a look at the link below. It shows what the shaft connects to inside the transmission and how to remove. You will have to drain the fluid and drop the pan, but I don't think you will have to remove the valve body or filter, which saves you some work. The photos in that thread don't have the valve body there, but I think you might be able to knock out the pin that holds it in place with the valve body installed. You will then have to replace the shaft. I'd replace the shaft seal while there as it is dead simple with the shaft removed and this often leaks.

You can definitely buy the shaft as a separate part, but not from BMW. Find your local ZF parts dealer and purchase there. I've put an image from the ZF parts catalog below to confirm this is that part you are talking about.

https://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?p=14551480#post14551480

 

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#41 · (Edited)
So, for the selector shaft disaster, I'm planning to order a new selector shaft ($29) from Eriksson Industries, the metal dowel that secures the shaft, and a new seal. I also plan to get a new pan gasket along with 2 jugs of trans fluid and a cheap fluid pump to put it in. I should also replace the filter with gasket while I'm in there. Of course, the more I touch, the more I risk screwing up.

I'm now working on plans to put the car up on 4 jack stands so I can work comfortably and safely. My stands are 3 ton and 17 inches high.
 
#43 · (Edited)
OK, I have everything drained and opened up and I was able to drive out the metal dowel that secures the selector shaft.

The selector shaft is loose enough to pull out, but as it moves out of the case it hits the nearby frame member, and that is with the "shortened" shaft that I broke the tip off. There is no way the full length replacement shaft can go back in that way.

Am I missing something obvious. The shaft has to pull out of the case, it cannot go back in as it hits the support boss inside. Is more space created if I pop the seal out? I feel stuck. I really don't want to drop the transmission to create the space.

I did see a Youtube video on removing the rear transmission support and noticed that it caused the rear of the trans to drop. I'll try that once I recover from today's fun and see if it gives me enough drop for the shaft to clear the frame.
 
#44 ·
I didn't consider the side frame getting in the way. I'm assuming you will need to drop the rear of the transmission like you describe to get room as you need to be able to slide the new shaft in with the new seal in place.

My advice is to re-install the pan with just a few screws so you can support the edge when you remove the rear transmission support. Then remove the old shaft, push the new one in, re-install the rear transmission support and then remove the pan to fit the new shaft correctly. Either this or support under the guibo or the transmission bell housing to remove the rear transmission mount.

Another thought I had was to get some long 6mm screws and mount a block of wood to the rear of the transmission casing clear or the valve body so you can support it here to lower. See basic picture below.

 

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#46 ·
A minor update:

To review:

I'm trying to get the selector shaft out so i can replace it.
It is hitting the side of a frame member.
I supported the trans and removed the rear transmission support
The transmission rear dropped about an inch or so.
I need the trans to drop about another inch to get the shaft out.

Any ideas? Not thrilled with the idea of removing much more (exhaust, drivesaft, etc) at the rear end, because its all likely to be nasty to unbolt with corrosion. Any idea if loosening the front motor mounts might allow the rear to drop more?

All ideas appreciated. I'm considering drilling a 1/4 inch hole in the frame member to allow the rod to clear!
 
#48 · (Edited)
I had to replace the Center Support Bearing, which involved removing the exhaust and driveshaft. It wasn't technically difficult following a DIY. The 4 bolts at the front of the exhaust can be a problem and I highly advise new nuts. Presoak with WD40 or similar a day in advance and use a 1/2" impact, if at all possible. Everything is easy access and straightforward.
Now, your in NYC, so the rusty exhaust nuts, would be my starting point. The rest is easy.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk
 
#49 · (Edited)
Thanks guys. I am studying up on how to disconnect the trans to driveshaft connection and will start soaking the exhaust nuts (my bad handling of rusty nuts is what got me into this trouble) ....

So, drop exhaust, disconnect driveshaft at the Flex Plate and the rear of the trans should drop down some more (with a trolley jack for support of course)?

** Just took a good look at the exhaust studs/nuts. Corroded to nothing. Joints are compromised. Will have to cut em off, drill em out and replace with bolts/nuts. **
 
#50 ·
I don't know squat about the tranny, that's jjrichar's specialty. But if you're going this route, I would definitely change your tranny mounts while you've got everything out of the way.
The Guibo and Center Support Bearing would be nice to do as well, but it's not imperative and since you are taking everything apart, it will be easy when you do decide to do it.
I was very intimidated by the exhaust before I did it. No biggie. Wear goggles, all kinds of crud will be dropping down as your banging around. I had some dirt get in my eye and had to go to the Medifast office to have it removed.
Get new gaskets (cheap) for your reassembly, yours will be rusted out.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk
 
#51 ·
Thanks Deadfish. Once I know that I can make the selector shaft replacement, by dropping the trans down another inch for access, I'll take a better look at the items you suggested.

If the car can be made usable, I'll be in a better position to see if its all worth it....Of course all these parts will be very accessible when its all apart..
 
#55 ·
lhendrick
I suppose some karma left you and came my way, since we haven't seen the Cog Wheel of Death on the instrument cluster in a month now.
I never installed the new switch, and may consider selling it off since it can't be refunded.
Mine is shifting better than when I acquired it now.
I wish you luck getting your's back proper.
 
#57 ·
I always coat the front exhaust nuts and screw with copper anti seize paste. They will come off like butter for the life of the car afterwards. I also smear the gaskets with the paste and I can re-use them as they come off easily. I've had a lot of driveshaft vibration issues over the years and I've taken the exhaust and driveshaft off dozens of times. Using the anti-seize paste has always made the task very simple next time.

Agree with deadfish on replacing the transmission mounts while you are in there. To disconnect the guibo you will have to remove the driveshaft completely. You will damage the center mount of the guibo/driveshaft if you rotate the transmission down a long way if you don't do this.
 
#61 · (Edited)
Status report on selector shaft work: I was able to remove the exhaust system today. The nuts on the front were completely gone, so when I dropped the rear section supports it just pulled free from the header flange. The studs are toast, so off to a muffler shop once I finish the trans work.

On to removing the heat shield, disconnecting the driveshaft ends and letting the trans down some more...tomorrow. Bought the External (E12) torx socket today for the rear fasteners.
 
#63 · (Edited)
Some progress. Old selector shaft is out. The new one, 1/2 inch longer needs a little more clearance. I dropped the rear of the trans by removing the driveshaft and it did drop the trans, but not quite enough to clear the frame member so I can get the longer shaft in. I looked in the engine compartment and the front of the engine is now tilted up enough that the radiator fan is hitting the fan shroud hard. It won't go up any more, so I'll pull the fan shroud and see what happens.

** Edit: Pulled the shroud. No effect. I still need the rear of the trans to come down a little more to clear the shaft insertion. Took out the old selector shaft seal for replacement when I get in.

Anybody have a suggestion to get the trans to drop a little more. I'm out of ideas.
 

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