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General E46 Forum
This is the place to get answers, opinions and everything you need related to your E46 (sedan, coupe, convertible and wagon) BMW!

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Old 10-16-2009, 10:36 PM   #21
jbeurotech
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Quote:
Originally Posted by firefirefire90 View Post
what sickens me is my local indy quoted me 2 hours for this job while the OP has been quoted 4.5 for a job that requires no additional work other than dropping the oil pan
Not sure what you mean?? Removing the control arms have nothing to do with dropping the frame enough to get clearance for the oil pan to come out.

4.5 hours is a fair time for doing an oil pan gasket.

Oil Pan Gasket
Replace
Single Timing Chain
M3 B 3.9 5.2 Notes
Dual Timing Chain
325
2WD
Convertible B 3.3 4.6 Notes
Coupe, Sedan, Wagon
Manual Trans B 3.3 4.6 Notes
Auto Trans B 3.4 4.6 Notes
AWD
Manual Trans B 6.3 8.8 Notes
Auto Trans B 6.4 8.8 Notes
330
2WD
Convertible B 3.3 4.6 Notes
Coupe, Sedan
Manual Trans B 3.3 4.6 Notes
Auto Trans B 3.4 4.6 Notes
AWD
Manual Trans B 6.4 8.8 Notes
Auto Trans B 6.5 8.8
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Last edited by jbeurotech; 10-16-2009 at 10:39 PM.
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Old 10-19-2009, 10:58 AM   #22
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[QUOTE=jbeurotech;10773303]Not sure what you mean?? Removing the control arms have nothing to do with dropping the frame enough to get clearance for the oil pan to come out.

4.5 hours is a fair time for doing an oil pan gasket.

All due respect bro, but my mechanic has my cross-brace and control arms and bushings removed to replace a couple of broken bolts. From there he has to unbolt the front sway bar (1 minute), unbolt/lower the engine brace while using an engine hoist for support (29 minutes if he takes his time), unbolt/lower power steering pump (10 minutes because he has to remove the pulley first)...then remove 20+ oil pan bolts, replace gasket, re bolt everything. 4.5 hours for that is ridiculous! I have no issue with a mechanic needing to feed his family, but I'll pay him for the actual time he puts in on my car...not some bullshit BMW work allotment figure.

Some DIY'ers find removing the bushings allows the engine brace to drop further, I agree.
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Old 10-19-2009, 11:01 AM   #23
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[QUOTE=gwburke;10781811]
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Originally Posted by jbeurotech View Post
Not sure what you mean?? Removing the control arms have nothing to do with dropping the frame enough to get clearance for the oil pan to come out.

4.5 hours is a fair time for doing an oil pan gasket.

All due respect bro, but my mechanic has my cross-brace and control arms and bushings removed to replace a couple of broken bolts. From there he has to unbolt the front sway bar (1 minute), unbolt/lower the engine brace while using an engine hoist for support (29 minutes if he takes his time), unbolt/lower power steering pump (10 minutes because he has to remove the pulley first)...then remove 20+ oil pan bolts, replace gasket, re bolt everything. 4.5 hours for that is ridiculous! I have no issue with a mechanic needing to feed his family, but I'll pay him for the actual time he puts in on my car...not some bullshit BMW work allotment figure.

Some DIY'ers find removing the bushings allows the engine brace to drop further, I agree.
Don't forget the steering rack that has to be taken loose to drop the cross member. I would be happy to charge actual time Customers really would not like this system any better than the current one.

All I am saying is he quoted a fair price to do the work You may not like the price so you have the option of DIY or finding someone less qualified that will do it for less.
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Last edited by jbeurotech; 10-19-2009 at 11:11 AM.
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Old 11-15-2009, 09:35 PM   #24
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titan 3, jbeurotech, or anyone:

Is the eyelet or engine lift ring by the vanos enough to hold the engine in place with the engine cross brace off? Do you need other lift points to do the job. I plan to use the HF engine brace mentioned in this post to hold up the engine while doing the oil pan gasket replacement.
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Old 11-15-2009, 09:53 PM   #25
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[QUOTE=gwburke;10781811]
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbeurotech View Post
Not sure what you mean?? Removing the control arms have nothing to do with dropping the frame enough to get clearance for the oil pan to come out.

4.5 hours is a fair time for doing an oil pan gasket.

All due respect bro, but my mechanic has my cross-brace and control arms and bushings removed to replace a couple of broken bolts. From there he has to unbolt the front sway bar (1 minute), unbolt/lower the engine brace while using an engine hoist for support (29 minutes if he takes his time), unbolt/lower power steering pump (10 minutes because he has to remove the pulley first)...then remove 20+ oil pan bolts, replace gasket, re bolt everything. 4.5 hours for that is ridiculous! I have no issue with a mechanic needing to feed his family, but I'll pay him for the actual time he puts in on my car...not some bullshit BMW work allotment figure.

Some DIY'ers find removing the bushings allows the engine brace to drop further, I agree.
If you don't want to pay to have it done, why don't you buy all the tools needed and just do it you're self? You are partly correct, there is some labor overlap. I don't know of any shops around where I live (body shops or mech.shops) that charge actual time. If I charged that way, I would retire off of you're car because it would take me 6 weeks to repair it at what, $80-$100 an hour? I'm down with that.
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Old 11-15-2009, 10:40 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Lbert View Post
titan 3, jbeurotech, or anyone:

Is the eyelet or engine lift ring by the vanos enough to hold the engine in place with the engine cross brace off? Do you need other lift points to do the job. I plan to use the HF engine brace mentioned in this post to hold up the engine while doing the oil pan gasket replacement.
the front eyelet works fine to just drop the cross brace to drop the oil pan
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Old 11-15-2009, 10:53 PM   #27
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the front eyelet works fine to just drop the cross brace to drop the oil pan
Agreed. Front eyelet gets it done.
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Old 11-17-2009, 11:16 AM   #28
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after reading this thread I worked the oil pan around a bit and got it off without removing the oil pump. It helps to remove the small bracket at the front of the oil pan on the driver's side, it gives a little more room.
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Old 11-17-2009, 03:28 PM   #29
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Yup front Eyelet will work
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Old 07-15-2010, 08:36 PM   #30
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Can anyone tell me from experience, or having done this if you had to have the car re-aligned after taking brace/s off to drop it?

Thanks!
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Old 07-15-2010, 11:10 PM   #31
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Can anyone tell me from experience, or having done this if you had to have the car re-aligned after taking brace/s off to drop it?

Thanks!
The last one I did at work. I test drove after I completed the job and it drove straight and the steering wheel was straight. However I did check the toe and found it was slightly out of spec.

I always include an alignment for any quote that involves removing/replacing any suspension parts. Even though there may be no immediate symptoms, over the course of few thousand miles, a minor toe issue can eat up tires pretty bad.
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Old 07-15-2010, 11:35 PM   #32
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From there he has to unbolt the front sway bar (1 minute), unbolt/lower the engine brace while using an engine hoist for support (29 minutes if he takes his time), unbolt/lower power steering pump (10 minutes because he has to remove the pulley first)...then remove 20+ oil pan bolts, replace gasket, re bolt everything.
There's more to it than that. Like installation & removal of the engine support brace. Disconnecting and reconnecting of the battery. Cleaning the surface of the block & pan to remove any stubborn, stuck on old gasket material. Dealing with oil dripping all over him during removal, while cleaning surfaces and during replacement of the pan onto the block. Applying dabs of sealant where required. Re-stabbing the dipstick tube making sure the o-ring is still in tact and in place. Paying special care not to damage the high mileage brittle platic dipstick tube vent hose while removing/reinstalling the tube. Torquing the oil pan bolts to proper spec to prevent future leaks and or cracking the oil pan due to over torquing. Filling the engine with oil afterwards. Road testing the car after the repair. Lifting the car back up after the road test to verify it's no longer leaking. Cleaning the shop floor from the mess the leaky car made all over his floor.

No offense intended.. Just saying.
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Old 07-16-2010, 11:24 AM   #33
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There's more to it than that. Like installation & removal of the engine support brace. Disconnecting and reconnecting of the battery. Cleaning the surface of the block & pan to remove any stubborn, stuck on old gasket material. Dealing with oil dripping all over him during removal, while cleaning surfaces and during replacement of the pan onto the block. Applying dabs of sealant where required. Re-stabbing the dipstick tube making sure the o-ring is still in tact and in place. Paying special care not to damage the high mileage brittle platic dipstick tube vent hose while removing/reinstalling the tube. Torquing the oil pan bolts to proper spec to prevent future leaks and or cracking the oil pan due to over torquing. Filling the engine with oil afterwards. Road testing the car after the repair. Lifting the car back up after the road test to verify it's no longer leaking. Cleaning the shop floor from the mess the leaky car made all over his floor.

No offense intended.. Just saying.
Well said!
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Old 10-27-2010, 04:57 PM   #34
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Okay...just my 2 cents. Repair times are APPROXIMATE not EXACT, true mechanics are faster than techs. Login, no offense but about half of what you say adds to repair time is BS, you're padding the bill sir. Oil fill? You drained it, fill it back up. Road test? That's on you, checking to see if you messed up or not. Lift and verify? You should know if you did it right or not. Cleaning up after yourself? That's on you brother.
I suppose the clock is still running if you run to the john or getting tools before you start or washing your hands(you forgot that one). I hate using the book for repair times because it's mostly inaccurate...1hr billed is more like 20min actual work time.
Just saying.
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Old 10-27-2010, 06:00 PM   #35
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Okay...just my 2 cents. Repair times are APPROXIMATE not EXACT, true mechanics are faster than techs. Login, no offense but about half of what you say adds to repair time is BS, you're padding the bill sir. Oil fill? You drained it, fill it back up. Road test? That's on you, checking to see if you messed up or not. Lift and verify? You should know if you did it right or not. Cleaning up after yourself? That's on you brother.
I suppose the clock is still running if you run to the john or getting tools before you start or washing your hands(you forgot that one). I hate using the book for repair times because it's mostly inaccurate...1hr billed is more like 20min actual work time.
Just saying.
This is the difference between someone who has experience and expertise, and someone who is just monkeying around under your car.

Pay once my way or pay twice your way. You obviously have no idea what you are talking about.

Period.
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Old 10-28-2010, 08:14 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by MCMILO View Post
Okay...just my 2 cents. Repair times are APPROXIMATE not EXACT, true mechanics are faster than techs. Login, no offense but about half of what you say adds to repair time is BS, you're padding the bill sir. Oil fill? You drained it, fill it back up. Road test? That's on you, checking to see if you messed up or not. Lift and verify? You should know if you did it right or not. Cleaning up after yourself? That's on you brother.
I suppose the clock is still running if you run to the john or getting tools before you start or washing your hands(you forgot that one). I hate using the book for repair times because it's mostly inaccurate...1hr billed is more like 20min actual work time.
Just saying.

So all that time Cleaning up and stuff is for free. Guess where you work they ask you to PUNCH out to put away your pencil...... BS
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Old 10-28-2010, 08:40 AM   #37
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1) Discover the BMW mommy gave me has an oil pan leak.
2) Search google for a how-to to fix it myself.
3) Find a thread on E46F where grown men are talking.
4) Realize I can't do it myself because I'm 16.
5) Realize there's no way I can pay 4.5 hrs labor on my McDonalds salary.
6) Sign up for E46F and make a single post displaying my ignorance.
7) Ask mommy for a loan.
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Old 09-24-2012, 07:45 PM   #38
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1) Discover the BMW mommy gave me has an oil pan leak.
2) Search google for a how-to to fix it myself.
3) Find a thread on E46F where grown men are talking.
4) Realize I can't do it myself because I'm 16.
5) Realize there's no way I can pay 4.5 hrs labor on my McDonalds salary.
6) Sign up for E46F and make a single post displaying my ignorance.
7) Ask mommy for a loan.

Yep, pretty much!
Some of these people on here are so dumb and ignorant!
Don't wanna pay then do it yourself, judging by the idiot speaking it will take him 10 hours before he has the car towed to a shop to fix his mess!
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Old 02-11-2014, 11:43 AM   #39
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Yep, pretty much!
Some of these people on here are so dumb and ignorant!
Don't wanna pay then do it yourself, judging by the idiot speaking it will take him 10 hours before he has the car towed to a shop to fix his mess!
I was scrolling google looking for a simple labor time for an oil pan gasket on a 325xi and this forum thread popped up. I see that it is only for the 2 wheel drive E46, though I was reading anyway and signed up to add to the conversation. I know 4.5 hours to be a fair time for a 2 wheeler, with the proper engine hanger, a lift, full tool box with top quality non-rounding off all your hardware style tools, patience to not break anything in the process to cost the customer more money that isn't necessary, cleaning solutions and corner sealants that most don't even use but are needed, time to actually completely degrease the engine compartment and yes...check your work after a road test. A fact: You can't efficiently beat that time and come out with the same clean work that a good qualified mechanic/tech did that used the proper everything and can tell you honestly that he checked it afterward and it has been fixed properly.
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Old 02-11-2014, 12:09 PM   #40
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I was scrolling google looking for a simple labor time for an oil pan gasket on a 325xi and this forum thread popped up. I see that it is only for the 2 wheel drive E46, though I was reading anyway and signed up to add to the conversation. I know 4.5 hours to be a fair time for a 2 wheeler, with the proper engine hanger, a lift, full tool box with top quality non-rounding off all your hardware style tools, patience to not break anything in the process to cost the customer more money that isn't necessary, cleaning solutions and corner sealants that most don't even use but are needed, time to actually completely degrease the engine compartment and yes...check your work after a road test. A fact: You can't efficiently beat that time and come out with the same clean work that a good qualified mechanic/tech did that used the proper everything and can tell you honestly that he checked it afterward and it has been fixed properly.
Welcome, Getawaycarz ... I mean, i've thought about registering on a random forum just to write a thirteen line response to a two year old post, but haven't done it yet. How'd it feel?
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